Lloyd Blog

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby David » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:43 pm

Don't sugarcoat the issue. In plain words, Mathis made a failed attempt to redefine the derivative, based on intervals. His method doesn't work.
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby LongtimeAirman » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:28 pm

I disagree. It's a work in progress. It deserves consideration, not to be shot down.

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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby Chromium6 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:14 pm

As for the sqrt(x) does this still hold true or am I missing something?

--------

However if the absolute value of (x-1) were less than 1, then as the number of terms in the series increased, the value of each term will decrease. Therefore we can say that the following series is only valid for:

|x-1| < 1
-1 < x-1 <1
0 < x < 2

This tells us that for x in this range of values, the infinite term will go to zero and the series will converge. Remember, the more times you multiply a fraction by itself, the smaller it becomes.


For all real numbers greater than 2 you have to take reciprocal of its square root to include all real numbers that are outside of that series. < -- I guess you are looking for Mathis' to include this step with this non-polynomial.
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:53 am

Biological dating
Dinosaur soft tissue indicates geological dating in strata is wrong. Soft tissue can not survive that long. Or?

http://kgov.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue

As of March 2014, in fossils from dinosaur-layer and deeper strata, researchers have discovered flexible and transparent blood vessels, red blood cells, many various proteins including the microtubule building block tubulin, collagen, the cytoskeleton component actin, and hemoglobin, bone maintenance osteocyte cells, and powerful evidence for DNA.


Regards,
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Recent Cataclysmic Earth Events

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:25 am

I started this discussion at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14844&start=105#p93646.

SUMMARY: Supercontinent Breakup

Earth's Origin
The Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy, according to Cardona, is likely where the brown dwarf Saturn star system originated. Earth (and possibly Mars and Venus) was a trailing satellite1 of Saturn, following behind Saturn like the SL9 comet fragments followed each other in single file until they hit Jupiter in 1994.

Supercontinent Formation
The changing electrical environment between the dwarf galaxy and the solar system caused Saturn to flare occasionally during its travels, which deposited clay etc on Earth's northern hemisphere (which was then constantly facing Saturn). The clay deposit formed a Supercontinent in the northern Arctic with no mountains, but probably hills and much flat land. The Saturn System entered the solar system about 12,000 BP, which caused its last flare. The polar column between Saturn and Earth churned up the Arctic region, piling up sand, muck, loess, splintered trees, animals etc.

Supercontinent Breakup
About 4,500 BP, the Saturn System broke up near the present asteroid belt, which was formed during the breakup. Asteroid impacts broke up Earth's Supercontinent and caused continental drift, actually rapid continental sliding over the plasma Moho layer. Lower impulse mountains formed, such as the Appalachians, as explained at http://newgeology.us soon after the major impact. Then about half a day later, North America hit the East Pacific Rise (formed from an earlier impact), which caused the western part of the continent to rise up over a mile high. As the speed of the slide reduced, friction increased, causing the Rockies to form. The Andes formed similarly in South America.

Great Flood
When the Americas first started sliding westward after the main impact, Pacific Ocean waters flooded over the continent and carved the St. Lawrence Seaway as well as the Hudson River submarine canyon, while the Atlantic Ocean basin was forming and the water level was still very low (as canyons don't form under water). In Africa as the Mediterranean basin was opening up, flood waters from the Indian Ocean poured through the Nile valley into the Mediterranean, forming the submarine canyon there. As the North American plate slowed down, the Rockies formed and some flood waters carved the submarine canyon near L.A. as Pacific Ocean waters were temporarily retreating. Many large lakes were formed, including one in Manitoba, two in Utah and Arizona which later breached and carved the Grand Canyon (actually the canyon may have formed mostly like the submarine canyons formed as flood waters were flowing off the continent, leaving natural dams that broke later, draining the two large lakes), one in northern Utah which later carved the Snake River, one in western Montana which later formed the scablands of Washington, one in northern Nevada and numerous other smaller ones. Some flood waters also came from the north from the polar column, which broke as Earth separated from the Saturn system.

Other Impacts
Asteroid impacts formed Hudson Bay basin in Canada and the Great Lakes basins to the south. Huge globs of sand formed the Carolina bays and the Nebraska sand dunes. The sand may have come from the Great Lakes impacts. In the Arctic, micrometeorites from asteroid impacts are found in the bones and tusks of mammoths and other fauna. Loess (wind-blown dust, possibly from impacts) is found in their lungs, which suffocated them, while the temperatures suddenly dropped below freezing.

The Moon
Earth's Moon was captured from the Saturn system during the breakup.

Proofs of Young Earth
As I mentioned before, the ages of major rivers, the lack of sediment on the seafloors, the rapid rate of coastal erosion and the rapid rate of sedimentation of continental shelves prove that Earth's surface is young. Dinosaur bones are also carbon dated to between 20 and 30 thousand years old.
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:23 pm

Black Sea Flood
The idea presented below is similar to that of the formation of the Grand Canyon after the Great Flood described above. This is from http://creation.com/pre-flood-relics-on-the-bottom-of-the-black-sea.

If we accept that the Black Sea flooded towards the end of the Ice Age, we can link it with biblical chronology and the true history of the world. There is a good case for the Ice Age being post-Flood. Ussher’s Bible-based chronology places the Flood of Noah at 2348 BC, and creationist research suggests that the Ice Age took 500 years after the Flood to reach its maximum and a further 200 years to melt back. (Remember these are estimates only.) Thus, the Black Sea flood occurred after most of the continental ice sheets had melted, thereby raising ocean levels and allowing the Mediterranean to spill into the Black Sea some 700 years after the Flood.

So, with the Flood at 2348 BC, the Ice Age peak would have been around 1850 BC and the melt back completed by 1650 BC at which time the Black Sea area flooded. The discrepancy between this and the published date of 5600 BC (7,600 years ago) for the Black Sea flood is because the date of the Black Sea flood is based on 14C analyses. The problem is that the 14C dates have not been corrected for the increase in the atmospheric ratio of 14C/12C following the Flood. The sudden burial of masses of vegetation changed the balance in the carbon reservoirs on the earth, and equilibrium is still being approached. Properly corrected 14C dates would agree with the biblical date. Thus, the Black Sea flood is one of many post-Flood catastrophes that have occurred around the world (e.g., Siberian mammoths, Iceland’s mega-flood).
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Great Flood in Yellowstone Park

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:13 pm

How Could the Heart Mountain Slide Occur in Only 30 Minutes?
by Michael Oard June 21, 2006
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2006/06/21/slide-occur-30-minutes#fnMark_1_6_1

The Heart Mountain Detachment [] was a huge slide []. The initial block of carbonate rock covered an area [about 23 miles in diameter] near the northeast edge of Yellowstone National Park. Although the current fault plane dips gently to the southwest, uniformitarian scientists believe the carbonates slid down a slope of less than 2° toward the southeast [Presumably they found similar rock northwest of the mountain]. The block broke up into at least 50 large fragments and spread over an area greater than [42 miles in diameter]. The carbonates are about 1,650 feet thick [].

Many of the fragments ended up over the valley fill sedimentary rocks of the northwest Bighorn Basin. Heart Mountain is one of those fragments, which slid about 40 mi, coming to a stop on a gentle incline. The McCulloch Peaks represent the most distant fragments, 55 miles from the breakaway point. []

Based on two recently published papers, researchers favor catastrophic emplacement. The Heart Mountain slide is believed [by uniformitarian geologists] to have taken only 30 minutes! []

The end of Noah’s Flood (about 4,400 years ago) offers a [] straightforward mechanism. First, the events occurred underwater. Second, sliding friction would have been reduced, and the Heart Mountain Detachment could have been buoyed by a cushion of water or steam. Since volcanic rocks had already been deposited before sliding, the uniformitarian geologists are likely correct that a volcanic eruption caused the slide. Third, the eruption would have been much more catastrophic [than most assume], occurring during uplift of mountains and continents and accompanied by great earthquakes. Much more energy is available in the Flood paradigm.

Evidence for an underwater event during the Flood is provided by the emplacement of vertical trees, dropped into the Absaroka volcanics—after the slide. These volcanics mostly represent layer upon layer of volcanic debris flows and ash beds that accumulated several thousand feet thick over eastern and northern Yellowstone Park and vicinity. The Absaroka volcanics soon covered most Heart Mountain Detachment fragments. The volcanics contain multiple layers of vertical trees at various locations [The trees likely lost their limbs during the flood and sank root-first below locally hot flood waters and were partly buried under volcanic debris]. After emplacement, the Absaroka volcanics were greatly eroded into deep valleys. Creationist geologist Harold Coffin [] concluded that the trees, representing widely different climatic regimes, were emplacement from a mat of floating logs during the Flood.


Direction of Flood Waters?
The flood waters at Yellowstone apparently came from the northwest.

The initial flooding, as I stated earlier, likely came from the west to the east in the Americas as the Appalachian Mountains were forming from the impulse from the asteroid impact east of Africa. As North America slid over the east Pacific Rise, the western plateau built up and as the North American plate slowed down and stopped, the Rocky Mountains built up. During the slowdown the floodwaters in the midwest would have started moving westward, carving out the L.A. submarine canyon and possibly most of the Grand Canyon.

The waters from the northwest may have come at least partly from Earth's former polar column. Cardona said that the column held a considerable amount of water, but not as much as was already in the oceans. But if Saturn, Venus and Mars were breaking away from the Saturn Configuration, that's when the polar column would have severed and waters it contained would have begun flooding down from the Arctic region.

It's not clear to me how uprooted trees would have sunk vertically during the flood, but that's apparently what happened. Maybe Gordon can explain this for me.
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:22 pm

Image of Upright Fossil Tree in Yellowstone Park
http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/2006/06/heart-mtn-fig2.jpg

Rapid Change in Earth's Magnetic Field in S. Oregon
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/tj/v9/n2/astonishment
By the way, this Steens Mountain finding was reported in a TPOD on this site (Thunderbolts.info) at one time. This finding that the field can change 6 degrees per day over 8 days suggests that the reversals on the ocean floors likely changed in the same way in very short time periods as well. The Atlantic opened up in a matter of just over a day or so.

A decade ago, Prévot and Coe (and colleagues) reported in three papers the evidence they had found of extremely rapid changes of the Earth’s magnetic field recorded in lava flows at Steens Mountain in southern Oregon (USA).3,4,5 Scientists regard Steens Mountain as the best record of a magnetic reversal because the volcano spewed out 56 separate flows during that episode, each of these rock layers providing time-lapse snapshots of the reversal. Within one particular flow, Prévot and Coe discovered that rock toward the top showed a different magnetic orientation than did rock lower down. They interpreted this to mean that the field shifted about 3° a day during the few days it took the single layer to cool.6 Such a rate of change is about 500 times faster than that seen in direct measurements of the field today, so,

most geomagnetists dismissed the claim by applying the principle of least astonishment—‘it was easier to believe that these lava flows did not accurately record the changes in the earth’s magnetic field than to believe that there was something fundamentally wrong with the conventional wisdom of the day’

on the origin and history of the field.7

There the story would have ended, except that Coe and Prévot have continued their painstaking work. Now they have reported that the rate at which the orientation of the ancient magnetic field rotated reached an astounding 6° per day over an 8-day period, and have argued that these field changes recorded in these lava flows at Steens Mountain do reflect changes in the Earth’s main magnetic field.8
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby webolife » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:57 pm

Lloyd wrote:It's not clear to me how uprooted trees would have sunk vertically during the flood, but that's apparently what happened. Maybe Gordon can explain this for me.


Hey Lloyd, thanks for your inquiry. The Yellowstone petrified forest has been a matter of interest to me for some time. Standards claims that the forest was buried in situ cannot adequately explain the lack of observed root structures, nor the state of preservation of the remaining trunks, imho.

Rapid mineralization {contrary to uniformitarian claims} is observed and performable in laboratory settings, with saturated silica solutions. It is predictable that these kinds of solutions would be present in volcanic eruptions combined with flooding/sedimentary deposition, which is where and how the majority of fossilized wood is found worldwide. Some significant petrified forests are found with logs laid in horizontal positions [as a log jam] such as the Petrified Forest formation in Arizona; but the majority have been found in angled or vertical positions. ALL are found with the lower trunk portions DOWN, and typically the lower sections are more densely mineralized than the upper portions. Some are polystrate, attesting to the rapidity of deep sedimentation rather than a gradualistic accumulation via the standard models. Significantly, upper portions are often found missing from the sites, indicating that they were likely less petrified, subsequently more subject to decay and not preserved. This is evident in two of the petrified wood sites I've studied in Eastern Washington, both the Gingko site and a site several miles to the south near the town of Mattawa, where I collected by hand small toothpick like fragments from the core of a large petrified log exposed near some large elec transmission towers on Saddle Mountain. There were several large logs ~ 1 meter in diameter, angled down into the gravelly layer atop an eroded basalt flow. The remaining portions of petrified logs seemed to be increasing in diameter with depth indicating the lower trunk portions were most preserved. My proposal is that the trees were uprooted in a flood episode that accompanied the basalt outflows that I've described in numerous other threads; the root balls or sections are more dense than the upper trunk and thus tend to keep the trees upright, they may be laid down somewhat as they come to rest or when the slurry thickens and begins to compact. Of course if the trees are caught in an ashfall or other rain of lava from more directly above, there is likely to be a more vertical posture to the trees in their final positions, and this is my suspicion for the Yellowstone petrified forest. On two occasions when I observed some of those trees up close, I saw no indication that my hypothesis was incorrect, though there is no single scenario that is obviated by the direct evidence. It's anyone's guessing game -- science is for everyone and the consensus should not outweigh common sense.
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Re: Recent Cataclysmic Earth Events

Unread postby tholden » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:51 am

Lloyd wrote:
Earth's Origin
The Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy, according to Cardona, is likely where the brown dwarf Saturn star system originated. Earth (and possibly Mars and Venus) was a trailing satellite1 of Saturn, following behind Saturn like the SL9 comet fragments followed each other in single file until they hit Jupiter in 1994.


As Troy and I note in Cosmos in Collision, there is more than enough reason to reject that idea. The fact of the roughly 26-degree axis tilts of Neptune, Saturn, Mars, and Earth strongly indicate that those bodies were captured as a group by our sun and in fact flew into the plane of the Sun's system from the South at a ~26 degree angle, after which the individual bodies simply kept the ~26 degree angles as they spun out and began to orbit as they do now. The most reasonable assumption is that our entire system began as a HH object string and that the Southern section, including Neptune, Saturn, Mars, and Earth, had simply broken loose at some early point and were later recaptured. Troy believes that Uranus was also part of the Southern section and acquired it's odd axis tilt from buffeting as it served as the 'battering ram' or lead body in the capture event.
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:38 am

Planetary Axial Tilts
Ted, that sounds like a good theory. You should include a link to your book site.

Miles Mathis says the axial tilts are caused by the planets themselves. That is that the tilt of one planet affects the tilt of the next. But he acknowledges that at least one planet with a different tilt must have entered the solar system at some point to have resulted in the present arrangement of tilts.

An HH object could still have come from the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy, it seems to me. Venus certainly came along with Saturn, even though its tilt is different.

How Petrified Trees Attained Vertical Positions
Gordon said: My proposal is that the trees were uprooted in a flood episode that accompanied the basalt outflows that I've described in numerous other threads; the root balls or sections are more dense than the upper trunk and thus tend to keep the trees upright, they may be laid down somewhat as they come to rest or when the slurry thickens and begins to compact. Of course if the trees are caught in an ashfall or other rain of lava from more directly above, there is likely to be a more vertical posture to the trees in their final positions, and this is my suspicion for the Yellowstone petrified forest.

Thanks for your help, Gordon. It seems that you're saying that the trees in Yellowstone were standing in their natural growth position when they were covered with volcanic ash etc. But I thought the article I quoted was saying that the trees, from several climates, were in a flood and then sank root-first as the ash slurry was settling around them. I believe part of their evidence was that the Heart Mountain blocks broke off a mountain chain in the NW and the flood pushed the mountain blocks up to 55 miles to the SE where they settled on top of till and then were covered right away under ash and volcanic debris. Did you check in person or via literature to see what underlay the petrified trees there? Wouldn't any trees hit by a tsunami have been overturned and uprooted?

It's not obvious to me how trees would end up in vertical positions, because the trees I sometimes see float down the Mississippi River are, I think, always laying down horizontally. But I never see where they end up and never see them sink. Do they ever sink? If so, do they ever sink root-first and end up on the seafloor in vertical position? Are you saying that the trees in the Yellowstone area were quickly mineralized by the volcanics, which caused them to sink? It seems like mineralization would penetrate the narrow parts more quickly than the thicker part of trees. Am I wrong?

I found it interesting that the oldest trees still alive on Earth are apparently around 4,500 years old, which seems to be a pretty good way to estimate the time of the Great Flood. Do you agree, or have additional thoughts on dating it?
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby webolife » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:59 pm

Yes, I agree with pretty much all your comments; and no, I wasn't meaning to imply that the trees were buried in situ, rather that the petrification process was more rapid [or began first] near the roots, as they were transported largely root ball and all with the flood slurry. The Yellowstone grouping is unusual looking in that so many of the trunks are vertical and give the striking though incorrect impression of in situ burial. Tree trunks that are cut [or broken off such as in the log jam at Mt. St. Helens] will of course float horizontally as we are all accustomed to seeing. I swam in a small pond called Echo Lake near the home I grew up in Shoreline, WA, where off shore for many decades there was a trunk poking out of the water at about a 40o angle. My friends and I would swim out to jump off it and push it around so that it was pointing in a different direction. There is also an interesting object called the "Old Man" in Crater Lake which is a burly vertically floating tree trunk anchored by its root ball into a vertical position. It drifts about the lake with the wind and currents produced by the passing tour boats.
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:39 am

Evidence for Young Earth
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

I posted more data here: http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=4741-4760-5079-9754-11383-12775

The following are evidence of a Young Earth etc.

Civilization: Origin of various civilizations, writing, etc., all about the same time several thousand years ago.
http://creation.com/evidence-for-a-young-world

Language: Similarities in languages (e.g. compare some aboriginal languages in Australia with languages in south-eastern India and Sri Lanka).
http://creation.com/the-tower-of-babel-account-affirmed-by-linguistics

Human Genome: The decay in the human genome due to multiple slightly deleterious mutations each generation is consistent with a recent human origin.
http://creation.com/from-ape-to-man-via-genetic-meltdown-a-theory-in-crisis
http://creation.com/geneticist-evolution-impossible
http://www.scpe.org/vols/vol08/no2/SCPE_8_2_02.pdf

Y-Chromosome: Very limited variation in the DNA sequence on the human Y-chromosome around the world
http://creation.com/y-chromosome-adam

Racemization: Lack of 50:50 racemization of amino acids in fossils ‘dated’ at millions of years old, whereas complete racemization would occur in thousands of years.
http://creation.com/shaking-hands-on-a-recent-creation

Fossils: Discontinuous fossil sequences. E.g. Coelacanth, Wollemi pine and various ‘index’ fossils, which are present in supposedly ancient strata, missing in strata representing many millions of years since, but still living today. How could Coelacanths have avoided being fossilized for 65 million years, for example?
http://creation.com/correcting-the-headline-coelacanth-yes-ancient-no
http://creation.com/sensational-australian-tree-like-finding-a-live-dinosaur
http://creation.com/the-lazarus-effect-rodent-resurrection

Fossils: Scarcity of plant fossils in many formations containing abundant animal / herbivore fossils. E.g., the Morrison Formation (Jurassic) in Montana. Also the Coconino sandstone in the Grand Canyon has many track-ways (animals), but is almost devoid of plants. Implication: these rocks are not ecosystems of an ‘era’ buried in situ over eons of time as evolutionists claim. The evidence is more consistent with catastrophic transport then burial during the massive global Flood of Noah’s day.
http://creation.com/ariel-a-roth-biology-in-six-days

Fossils: Polystrate fossils: tree trunks in coal. There are also polystrate tree trunks in the Yellowstone fossilized forests and Joggins, Nova Scotia and in many other places. Polystrate fossilized lycopod trunks occur in northern hemisphere coal, again indicating rapid burial / formation of the organic material that became coal.
http://creation.com/coal-memorial-to-the-flood
http://creation.com/the-yellowstone-petrified-forests
http://www.icr.org/pressing-on-for-creation
http://creation.com/forests-that-grew-on-water

Coal: Experiments show that with conditions mimicking natural forces, coal forms quickly; in weeks for brown coal to months for black coal. Long time periods could be an impediment to coal formation because of the increased likelihood of the permineralization of the wood, which would hinder coalification.
http://creation.com/coal-volcanism-and-noahs-flood

Oil: Experiments show that with conditions mimicking natural forces, oil forms quickly.
http://creation.com/how-fast-can-oil-form
Opals: and opals form quickly, in a matter of weeks.
http://creation.com/creating-opals

Petrified Wood: There is evidence for rapid petrifaction of wood.
http://creation.com/instant-petrified-wood

Rock Intrusions: Clastic dykes and pipes (intrusion of sediment through overlying sedimentary rock) show that the overlying rock strata were still soft when they formed.
http://creation.com/fluidisation-pipes-evidence-of-large-scale-watery-catastrophe

Strata: Para(pseudo)conformities, where one rock stratum sits on top of another rock stratum, yet the contact plane lacks any significant erosion. E.g. Coconino sandstone / Hermit shale in the Grand Canyon (supposedly a 10 million year gap in time). The thick Schnebly Hill Formation (sandstone) lies between the Coconino and Hermit in central Arizona.
http://creation.com/the-case-of-the-missing-geologic-time

Strata: The presence of ephemeral markings (raindrop marks, ripple marks, animal tracks) at the boundaries of paraconformities show that the upper rock layer has been deposited immediately after the lower one.
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth#paraconformities
and inter-tonguing of adjacent strata.
http://creation.com/the-case-of-the-missing-geologic-time

Salt: The amount of salt in the world’s oldest lake suggests an age of 4500 years.
http://creation.com/world-s-oldest-salt-lake-only-a-few-thousand-years-old

Rapid Sedimentation: The discovery that underwater landslides (‘turbidity currents’) travelling at some 50 km/h can create huge areas of sediment in a matter of hours.
http://creation.com/a-classic-tillite-reclassified-as-a-submarine-debris-flow

Canyons: Observed examples of rapid canyon formation; for example, Providence Canyon in southwest Georgia, Burlingame Canyon near Walla Walla, Washington, and Lower Loowit Canyon near Mount St Helens. The rapidity of the formation of these canyons, which look similar to other canyons that supposedly took many millions of years to form.
http://creation.com/canyon-creation
http://creation.com/a-canyon-in-six-days
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j18_1/j18_1_45-46.pdf

Islands: Rapid island formation and maturation, such as Surtsey.
http://creation.com/surtsey-the-young-island-that-looks-old
http://creation.com/tuluman-a-test-of-time

Coastal erosion: Rate of erosion of coastlines, horizontally. E.g. Beachy Head, UK, loses a metre of coast to the sea every six years.
http://creation.com/vanishing-coastlines
Highland Erosion: and the rate of erosion of continents vertically.
http://creation.com/eroding-ages

Mountain Gorges: Gorges cut through mountain ranges where rivers run. They occur worldwide and are part of what evolutionary geologists call ‘discordant drainage systems’.
http://creation.com/do-rivers-erode-through-mountains

River Valleys: River valleys are too large for the streams they contain. Dury speaks of the “continent-wide distribution of underfit streams”. Using channel meander characteristics, Dury concluded that past streams frequently had 20–60 times their current discharge. This means that the river valleys would have been carved very quickly.
http://www.icr.org/quotes

Seafloor Magnetization: The pattern of magnetization in the magnetic stripes where magma is welling up at the mid-ocean trenches indicates rapid sea-floor spreading as well as rapid magnetic reversals.
Creation Research Quarterly 25(3):130–137, 1988).

C14: Carbon-14 in coal, oil, fossil wood and diamonds suggests ages of only thousands of years. Note that attempts to explain away carbon-14 in diamonds, coal, etc., such as by neutrons from uranium decay converting nitrogen to C-14 do not work.
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter4.pdf
http://globalflood.org/papers/2003ICCc14.html
http://creation.com/radioactive-dating-in-conflict
http://creation.com/diamonds-a-creationists-best-friend
http://creation.com/diamonds-a-creationists-best-friend#objections

Isochrons: Demonstrably non-radiogenic ‘isochrons’ of radioactive and non-radioactive elements.
http://creation.com/contra-rb-sr-dating
http://creation.com/the-failure-of-u-th-pb-dating-at-koongarra-australia

Zircons: Different faces of the same zircon crystal and different zircons from the same rock giving different ‘dates’.
http://creation.com/flaws-in-dating-the-earth-as-ancient

Zircons: Evidence of a period of rapid radioactive decay in the recent past (lead and helium concentrations and diffusion rates in zircons).
http://creation.com/radiometric-dating-breakthroughs

Radiohalos: Pleochroic halos produced in granite by concentrated specks of short half-life elements such as polonium suggest a period of rapid nuclear decay of the long half-life parent isotopes during the formation of the rocks and rapid formation of the rocks.
http://creation.com/radiohalos-startling-evidence-of-catastrophic-geologic-processes-on-a-young-earth
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:31 am

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/ ... 34x634.jpg

Mountain Gorges: Gorges cut through mountain ranges where rivers run. They occur worldwide and are part of what evolutionary geologists call ‘discordant drainage systems’.
http://creation.com/do-rivers-erode-through-mountains


This is where I have the disagreement with Creationists, and they do not respond to my alternative explanation that these cuts are from electric/plasma effects. The laminar model prevents rapid cutting by large water volumes. Anyone can observe that when a river is running at its fullest that there is often little, no, or even gentle backwards flow along the banks. It has been shown that the fine sediment in the Colorado can settle out even at the times of greatest river flow, leading to there being 75 feet or so of sediment in the river bed. To say thet the river flow must have been of imense proportions in order to cut the valleys does not work at all, from a mechanical perspective.
I don't really understand the reluctance of the Creationists to consider the electrical model of river formation, as at the time of the deluge, there were also tales of the lightning and thunder, as told in the epic of Gilgamesh, and in The book of Jasher. Localised deluges along with thunder and lightning still occur, so if you scale it all up by say a million times...?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Lloyd Blog

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:03 pm

Gorges through Mountain Chains
Thanks for the comment, Gary.

The rilles on Mars and the Moon certainly look like electric effects, but they also seem to be associated with meteor impacts. I'll have to talk to Charles one of these days to see what he thinks of Valles Marineris. It looks like it must have formed electrically, but we'd have to know the details of how it happened before we can be confident about that.

The gorges and canyons on Earth seem to be flood effects. They don't have many rille features.

The supercontinent that existed before the asteroid impact split it apart (as per http://newgeology.us) about 4,500 years ago must have had no mountains on it, just small hills, and deep clay soil.

The mountain chains rose up on continents' trailing edges first from the impulse that started the continents sliding apart and later on the leading edges from friction that brought the continents to a halt.

Ocean waters would have run over the continents when the impulse started and would have flowed off again a day later when the continents stopped.

Since the mountains were still "soft", unconsolidated soil, sand etc, flood waters would have easily cut through them.

They also would have carved the submarine canyons (near NYC, U.S. and near Cairo, Egypt) when the Atlantic and Mediterranean basins first opened up as well as the one near L.A., U.S., when the continents stopped, which is when the Pacific Ocean waters would have moved out to sea and flood waters on the North Amnerican plate would have flowed westward too off the west coast.
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