5 Versions of Catastrophism

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Lloyd
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:10 pm

Tayga, re: Cook had earlier claimed the Absu (Duat to the Egyptians) was the ocean in the southern sky - Earth's rings. Absu is Sumerian for "abyss" or "deep". It offers an alternative explanation for the water seen in the sky. He argues that the Egyptians' widespread of the gods in boats ties to this perception of the 'southern' ocean.
* Cardona said in the interview thread that the circumstellar disk around Saturn was what the ancients referred to by the great deep etc, the ocean in the sky. He said the disk looked like water that Saturn was floating on.

Lloyd
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:22 am

Comparing Gary's and Cardona's Theories etc
* Gary, you've stated that you doubt the possibility of the Saturn Theories. I'd like to know your specific reasons, if you have time to discuss.
How Saturn Could Have Appeared to be above Earth's North Pole
* In my new thread, Earth Was a Moon of Saturn, I mentioned what makes it seem plausible to me. Cardona found that Saturn apparently behaved much like a comet, due to different charge environments that it may have continually encountered. Comet tails in the solar system seem to be caused by the changing electrical environment they encounter in moving from aphelion to perihelion and back. Do you doubt that changing electric fields are the cause of comet tails? And do you doubt that brown dwarf stars have bipolar jets, or that such jets could be electrical effects similar to comet tails?
* Just as comet SL9 was a string of objects all in a line trailing each other, Earth could have trailed Saturn in a line in the same way, thus making it appear from Earth that Saturn was stationary at its north pole. And, as Fred J explained in a new message I posted at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 32&p=56045, Peratt's studies of Rock Art worldwide found that the ancients apparently witnessed Earth being within a plasma Z-pinch. This appears to be the result of Earth having been trailing closely behind Saturn while encountering a strong plasmasphere, such as that of the Sun.
Did Planets Encounter Electrical Effects?
* Since you follow much of Velikovsky's ideas, why do you doubt his suggestion that the planets encountered electrical effects during near encounters? Or at least I haven't noticed so far that you support any claims of such effects.
Some of Your Major Claims
* Before long, I hope to ask Cardona and maybe others, what their reasons would be for doubting some of your major claims, such as that Egyptian history only goes back 3,200 years or so and that no others are older. Do you think Rock Art is no older than that either?

Lloyd
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:14 pm

* An online book called Saturn Death Cult has an interesting version of the Saturn Theory. See http://saturndeathcult.com. Here's an image from the book.
http://saturndeathcult.com/wp-content/u ... fig-15.png
Image

The Aten
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by The Aten » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:30 am

johnm33 wrote:Aten
In moses in the hieroglyphs they have djoser as joseph a viceroy [imhotep is a title of office like minister or bishop] under neterjerekethet [1500bc+/-]who was a kassite emporer, djoser was given the heave by sneferu who's dynasty succeeded neterjerekhets. djoser was then succeeded by three of his brothers none of whom lasted long, and then came the 4th dynasty
More on Imhotep

Revered throughout the ancient world historians call Imhotep the worlds original genius.

2,000 year after his death Imhotep was recognised for his earthly achievement and elevated to the status of a god. Like Jesus Christ in the Christian tradition Imhotep was seen as both a mortal man and the son of the creator god. Shrines were built to honour him in the most sacred temples of Egypt at Philae, Karnak, Thebes and Luxor. Pilgrims travelled from Greece, Rome and throughout the ancient world flocking to his shrines carrying devotional statues of him. Imhotep's tombs and temples became the ancient world equivalent of Lourdes, places to go for healing and worship. As above: Imhotep is mentioned in thousands of inscriptions and papyri - "he turns barren fields into bountiful harvests, he makes barren women fertile."

Conventionally what scholars are asking us to believe is some two thousand years after his death the Egyptians (& Geeks and Romans) went back through their history and dug up some scant references (such as the one on the base of Djoser's broken statue) to Imhotep and decided this guy should be worshiped as a god.

To my mind, this is absurd, especially given the fact that 90% of the population were illiterate.

"The stories about Imhotep were so fantastic and written so many centuries after his death that scholars claim the great sage was an invention of later times."
(Documentary on "The Great Egyptians, Imhotep).

This sounds much more likely, but how to explain Imhotep's mention on Djoser's statue?
A possible mistranslation? Or again, perhaps ancient chronology is out, in places by millennia.

In his book The Pyramid Age, Emmet Sweeney proposes the Pyramid Age be relocated to later times. I think he's on to something in that perhaps the Pyramids age was in fact contemporary with the times of Imhotep. This would make much more sense, no harkening back to a earlier time.

As proposed Imhotep was just one of the many guises of the Moon, he was vizier to many planetary pharaohs, as well as occasionally ruling himself in the guise of Egypt's Napoleon, Tuthmosis ("born of the god Thoth").

Imhotep (same documentary)

"He transforms dried river beds into life giving waters."

The moon gravitationally lifting underground waters to the surface, or tides as we get today?
Or perhaps some guy with a magic wand :D

Gg

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orrery
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by orrery » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:34 pm

I don't even want to pretend to know, I can allow for the possibility that Earth was once a satellite of Saturn, but I find it hard to accept that we humans ever existed at the time. Hundreds of millions or even billions of years ago? Maybe. Mainly, because I can't possibly see the Earth getting thrown out of Saturn's orbit and somehow be fortunate enough to land in a Solar orbit suitable for our continued survival, unless either our ancestors were super advanced or we were assisted through some extra terrestrial or transcendent means. I've gone to amazon.com to order Cardona's books but they are quite expensive and I'm not sure I can toss $50 on each part of his series unless someone wants to loan me a copy I'm going to be out of the loop on this one.
"though free to think and to act - we are held together like the stars - in firmament with ties inseparable - these ties cannot be seen but we can feel them - each of us is only part of a whole" -tesla

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Lloyd
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:45 pm

Orrery said: I don't even want to pretend to know, I can allow for the possibility that Earth was once a satellite of Saturn, but I find it hard to accept that we humans ever existed at the time. Hundreds of millions or even billions of years ago? Maybe. Mainly, because I can't possibly see the Earth getting thrown out of Saturn's orbit and somehow be fortunate enough to land in a Solar orbit suitable for our continued survival, unless either our ancestors were super advanced or we were assisted through some extra terrestrial or transcendent means.
* Did you read the Cardona Interview thread, or the one titled Earth Was a Moon of Saturn?
* Earth did not orbit Saturn. It trailed behind Saturn as Saturn was moving from the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy to the Solar System. It followed behind Saturn the way Comet SL9 fragments followed behind each other till they hit Jupiter in 1994. Earth remained a moon of Saturn until 4,500 years or so ago. The Saturn System entered the Solar System about 10,000 years ago and it took 5,000 years or so spiraling in closer and closer to the Sun before it reached the asteroid belt, where the system finally broke apart and the planets found their present orbits.

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orrery
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by orrery » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:48 pm

Lloyd wrote:
Orrery said: I don't even want to pretend to know, I can allow for the possibility that Earth was once a satellite of Saturn, but I find it hard to accept that we humans ever existed at the time. Hundreds of millions or even billions of years ago? Maybe. Mainly, because I can't possibly see the Earth getting thrown out of Saturn's orbit and somehow be fortunate enough to land in a Solar orbit suitable for our continued survival, unless either our ancestors were super advanced or we were assisted through some extra terrestrial or transcendent means.
* Did you read the Cardona Interview thread, or the one titled Earth Was a Moon of Saturn?
* Earth did not orbit Saturn. It trailed behind Saturn as Saturn was moving from the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy to the Solar System. It followed behind Saturn the way Comet SL9 fragments followed behind each other till they hit Jupiter in 1994. Earth remained a moon of Saturn until 4,500 years or so ago. The Saturn System entered the Solar System about 10,000 years ago and it took 5,000 years or so spiraling in closer and closer to the Sun before it reached the asteroid belt, where the system finally broke apart and the planets found their present orbits.
Again, we are forced to answer the question as to how the Earth coincidentally and by some miracle just happened to settle in a human friendly orbit. It seems way to convenient that we would just fortuitously be thrown from one goldilocks position to another.
"though free to think and to act - we are held together like the stars - in firmament with ties inseparable - these ties cannot be seen but we can feel them - each of us is only part of a whole" -tesla

http://www.reddit.com/r/plasmaCosmology

Lloyd
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Re: 5 Versions of Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:33 pm

Orrery said: It seems way to[o] convenient that we would just fortuitously be thrown from one goldilocks position to another.
* All of the rocky planets and moons in the Saturn System may have been inhabited by living things. But only one remained inhabited when the system broke up in the inner Solar System.

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