11 Year Solar Cycle

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cantdrive85
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11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by cantdrive85 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:44 pm

I regards to the solar cycle, is the oscillation due to the Sun traveling along a helical birkeland current in which the potential is affected by how close the pinch is to the galactic plane? Does the energy of the current fluctuate due to it's position in relation to the galactic plane, i.e., is there more energy imparted upon the current the closer it gets to galactic plane and less as it moves away? Or is the fluctuation due to an oscillation of a pulse flowing through the current itself?

For that matter, does the Sun (pinch) "crank" it's way along the current (analogous of a nut traveling along a never ending spiraling bolt) while the current remains essentially fixed in it's place to the galactic circuit? Or, does the Sun (pinch) and the current move together, where the pinch remains fixed in it's relation to the current itself (analogous to dragging a string of lights fixed on a cord)?

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:01 pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14615526
Does this help? Also know this, the peak in the solar cycle happens when the sun is moving at maximum speed THROUGH the galactic plane. This also means, of course, that the minimum happens when the sun is moving through the galactic plane in the other direction. This is not surprising, once you realize that the galactic electric field points towards the galactic plane on one side, and away on the other.
Do you get this? The sun is spiraling up and down relative to the galactic plane. Maximums in the solar cycle match peaks in our motion in one direction, minimums in the solar cycle, match peaks of our motion in the other direction. But remember here,it's the sun's motion around the solar system barycenter that matters. The solar system as a whole may be "bobbing up through the galactic plane", but the sun itself bobs up and down in an ~11 to 12 year cycle. (our solar system is tilted on it's side compared to the galactic plane).
If I can make this clearer, let me know. You are asking the right question, and I hoped someone could make sense of this.

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:19 pm

And if this helps,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:False ... Nebula.jpg
These stars, and the current itself, spiral through space. It's not that the stars are spinning "like a nut"on some field lines that themselves run parallel to the galactic plane/or axis

Lloyd
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:59 am

Celeste, What about the Maunder Minimum?
Jone brings up a point at this thread, http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 898#p73865, about the Maunder Minimum. Your suggestion that the Sun's movement above and below the galactic plane causes the sunspot cycle seems plausible, since I don't know much on the topic, but what would cause there to be no sunspots at all for several decades? Could the Sun get stuck above or below the plane for that long? Or would some other galactic or local event interfere with normal sunspot production?

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:09 pm

Llyod, It was discussed here a bit:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... &start=120
The short story goes like this. The sun moves around the center of mass of the solar system in about 11 years. Since the solar system is tilted on it's side quite a bit, compared to the galaxy, that means the sun bobs up and down relative to the galactic plane. Peaks/troughs in the solar cycle match peaks in the sun's motion up or down relative to the galactic plane. Now in years that the major planets (Jupiter and Saturn) are on the same side of the sun, that means the sun moves faster/farther around the barycenter. That is when we see strong solar cycles. Weak solar cycles happen when the planets masses are distributed more evenly around the sun, and the sun's motion is slower. What is important here, is that it is how fast the sun is moving compared to the galactic plane,not where we are compared to the plane. The sun bounces up and down every eleven years, towards and away from the galactic plane. We have not crossed THROUGH the galactic plane in that time. The fact that scientists have observed an electric field pointing towards the sun on one side of the galactic plane, while it points away on the other,suggests it is the sun's motion in a large scale electric field that is causing the cycle.

Lloyd
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:24 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Celeste.

Do you know if anyone has done a retrocalculation to see if the gas giants were very spread out around the Sun from 1645 to 1710, the time of the Maunder Minimum, I think?

I see you reference http://tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour2.html there. I believe that's by The Millennium Group. I had found that or a similar paper a few months ago and discussed it with Charles, but I may not have read the entire paper, or it was a different one.

sjw40364
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by sjw40364 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:13 pm

celeste wrote:Llyod, It was discussed here a bit:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... &start=120
The short story goes like this. The sun moves around the center of mass of the solar system in about 11 years. Since the solar system is tilted on it's side quite a bit, compared to the galaxy, that means the sun bobs up and down relative to the galactic plane. Peaks/troughs in the solar cycle match peaks in the sun's motion up or down relative to the galactic plane. Now in years that the major planets (Jupiter and Saturn) are on the same side of the sun, that means the sun moves faster/farther around the barycenter. That is when we see strong solar cycles. Weak solar cycles happen when the planets masses are distributed more evenly around the sun, and the sun's motion is slower. What is important here, is that it is how fast the sun is moving compared to the galactic plane,not where we are compared to the plane. The sun bounces up and down every eleven years, towards and away from the galactic plane. We have not crossed THROUGH the galactic plane in that time. The fact that scientists have observed an electric field pointing towards the sun on one side of the galactic plane, while it points away on the other,suggests it is the sun's motion in a large scale electric field that is causing the cycle.
Sounds relatively logical. Increased velocity through the galactic magnetic field would increase energy hence an increase in the solar cycle. As the angles between the currents change, so does repulsion and attraction, acceleration and deceleration. One of the problems is we have assigned a constant to mass when it is a variable based on velocity in a magnetic field. If E=mc2, then as velocity increases energy increases hence mass increases. Not to be confused with matter. That is but the conductor. Mass/energy is then shed to conserve angular momentum. Hence increase in sunspots. IMO.

Andor
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by Andor » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:47 am

Hi Guys I am new here!!

I am not a scientist or astronomer but merely an oil worker interested in the universe etc
I have some Questions:

Is there a slight possibility that our sun can have a binary companion?
I have read a lot about this and also read the washington post of 1984....
Would it be also possible that if so, this could have a greater cycle effect perhaps on our sun?
For some years I am following the sunspot cycle on Solarham.com and can clearly see the trend goes down now.
I understand as explained the 11-12 year cycle and even the fact that maybe every 250 years or so we could have the maunder or dalton effect?
What I wonder is that there could be another cycle we cannot see maybe around the corner?

Regards
Andor

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:24 pm

Lloyd wrote:Thanks for the clarification, Celeste.

Do you know if anyone has done a retrocalculation to see if the gas giants were very spread out around the Sun from 1645 to 1710, the time of the Maunder Minimum, I think?

I see you reference http://tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour2.html there. I believe that's by The Millennium Group. I had found that or a similar paper a few months ago and discussed it with Charles, but I may not have read the entire paper, or it was a different one.
Yes, I used Starry Night software, and ran it back to the Maunder Minimum. I remember it fit, but I don't have access to that software at the moment. If I remember correctly, Jupiter and Saturn were at opposite sides of the sun at the time that should have been solar maximum. It's not that they stayed in that configuration for the whole cycle, what matters is where they are at peaks in the cycle.

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:23 pm

Andor,
Yes, there are clearly longer term cycles due to our motion with other stars. The problem is that most scientists are looking for some object in a gravitational orbit with us, and won't consider electrical forces. So, they keep going back to that model of our sun being on some long term elliptical orbit around the center of the galaxy, with no shorter cycles other than our "bobbing up and down through the galactic plane"
If you want a clear picture of how stars move, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:False ... Nebula.jpg
Our sun is moving the same way as those stars, which we are trying to prove here: http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... f=3&t=7721

Andor
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by Andor » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:53 am

Thanks Celeste!!
Wow!!
If as you say Proxima Centauri's cloud will interact with ours what about if we do have a binary star even relatively much closer, and his cloud interacts now with us? Could this be possible?

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 am

Andor, this is a thread where they started talking about our possible binary companion:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... ars#p40206
loch's first post asked all the right questions.

kell1990
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by kell1990 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:47 pm

I doubt that personal experience is a very good source of validation for anything, but I did experience a very unusual "dream" some time ago that I think bears on this discussion. Some will surely think this is crazy, but it was a long time ago, and I haven't had this exquisite a dream since. So with that preface...

It seemed like a "sensory unit" (more on that later) left my upper cranial area, somewhere behind and above the eyes, and went flying out into space. The odd thing is that seemed to happen suddenly, at quantum speeds, and in an instant this SU (sensory unit) was zooming out through space.

[
The SU could sense that the Sun was somewhat behind and off to the left of it. It seemed that the Sun moving through space and was leaving something like a "contrail" behind it. The "contrail" was shaped like a cork-screw, with a helically-shaped area in its wake. Many celestial objects could be seen, but just as background in the entire image except for one particular area.

For some reason, the SU became very aware of an area off to the right, in the future, and in the general direction of trajectory of the Sun but outside the projected path of the Sun. This area is an area that has an obvious lack of light in in. It's like a black hole, but it's a membrane, and not a sinkhole (if that makes any sense). The thing about it is that once it is transited, return is impossible.

This SU is shaped like a tear-drop, with a sliver of some sort of communication link that connects it to the area (near the hypothalmus) inside my brain. (Yes, this is where it gets really crazy.) By some process that I don't understand this SU is connected to the area by something that looks like a spider's thread or some other sort of filamentary material that has an almost instantaneous communications network (more craziness.).

Art is one of my hobbies (Picasso has nothing to worry about) and I'm going to try to paint what I saw in that dream. When it's done, you will see a photo of it. There was a little more to this tale but the timer is going to catch me if I don't post this now.

Maol
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by Maol » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:07 am

kell1990 wrote: There was a little more to this tale but the timer is going to catch me if I don't post this now.
Compose and edit at your leisure in Word, then copy and paste.

celeste
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Re: 11 Year Solar Cycle

Unread post by celeste » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:40 am

http://www.publish.csiro.au/nid/138/paper/AS06018.htm

The above link shows the relationhip between the sun's rotation rate and the sun's motion around solar system barycenter. But we know that rotation rate is a function of current input to stars, with greater current input driving up rotation rate.
Let's sum up what we know so far:
1. The sun revolves around the solar system barycenter every eleven years.
2. This motion carries the sun up and down through the galactic electric field, driving our solar cycle.
3. The sun's rotation rate is also affected, giving further evidence that it is electric fields/currents that are at work.
4. Solar wind speed is inversely related to coronal temperatures, again what you would expect because a stronger electric field means greater current (solar wind),and more dethermalization.
5. Some solar cycles are more pronounced,because of major planets being on the same side of the sun, magnifying the sun's motion around solar system barycenter.

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