EU Theory of Gravity - How to Prove

[kaublezw]

I'm fascinated w/ the EU theory of gravity. How could this be proven experimentally? Is it as simple as placing some material in a powerful electric field, and weighing it?? That seems too simple to be the case. Or is it the case that an electric field powerful enough to distort gravity (at least on Earth) cannot be generated?

If the electric field does distort gravity, and then it's turned off, wouldn't that create some kind of wave in the gravity field that would propagate out?

(FYI, I have a computer engineering degree, but it's been many years since I've done any complex math. I'm just fascinated and curious at the whole EU paradigm.)

[querious]

I'm fascinated w/ the EU theory of gravity. How could this be proven experimentally? Is it as simple as placing some material in a powerful electric field, and weighing it?? That seems too simple to be the case. Or is it the case that an electric field powerful enough to distort gravity (at least on Earth) cannot be generated?

You bring up an interesting point about that circularity people are accusing Wal of. The nucleus is ~1500X HEAVIER because of standard gravity acting on mass, while it's protons all have the exact same charge as electrons. So electrically, it's no heavier than the electrons.
But we do know that the electron cloud is locked to neighboring clouds by the various inter-atomic and inter-molecular bonding forces, in addition to being locked to it's own nucleus. So I can easily imagine a slight distortion of the nuclear position downward relative to it's associated electron cloud.

However, all that would do is generate a very weak electric dipole field which falls off as the 3rd power of distance.

[gocrew]

I do not know what experiment might help to confirm the hypothesis, but something you said misunderstands the hypothesis. The EU idea is not that electricity distorts the gravity field. There is no gravity field. Gravity itself is simply an aspect of electricity, caused by the dipole nature of molecules.

[querious]

I do not know what experiment might help to confirm the hypothesis, but something you said misunderstands the hypothesis. The EU idea is not that electricity distorts the gravity field. There is no gravity field. Gravity itself is simply an aspect of electricity, caused by the dipole nature of molecules.

I don't think he misunderstood the hyposthesis. I think he was asking if a LOCAL strong electric field might distort the existing background electro-gravitic field.

In either case, an easy experiment to confirm the hypothesis would be to have an neutral piece of foil hanging by an non-conducting thread to a sensitive scale. Then give the foil a static charge and see if the scale changes readings.
If gravity is as simple as a remnant electric field, the foil should change it's pull upon being charged. That effect would have been discovered long ago. Even Faraday looked for it.

[kaublezw]

I do not know what experiment might help to confirm the hypothesis, but something you said misunderstands the hypothesis. The EU idea is not that electricity distorts the gravity field. There is no gravity field. Gravity itself is simply an aspect of electricity, caused by the dipole nature of molecules.

Yes, that makes sense. But the question still remains...how do you prove that what we call gravity is caused by this "aspect of electricity" as you call it? Have any experiments been conceived of or designed?

(I'm not trying to imply that I'm doubtful of the theory...I'm just curious on how it can be proved.)

[Zyxzevn]

.. Then give the foil a static charge and see if the scale changes readings...

There are quite a lot of experiments about this on youtube..

Here is how to build a electic lifter /ionocraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzZy1Aqleno
The ions inside the air start to flow around it and create some lift.

But I have also seen some people claim that this thing also works without air.
Here is one from nasa (it claims):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYMUv1VJ3VQ

Someone made a whole list of "anti-gravity" experiments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnqtIKg ... FD&index=1

Electric gravity
From:
http://www.holoscience.com/wp/electric- ... -universe/
Gravity is due to radially oriented electrostatic dipoles inside the Earth’s protons, neutrons and electrons. [18] The force between any two aligned electrostatic dipoles varies inversely as the fourth power of the distance between them and the combined force of similarly aligned electrostatic dipoles over a given surface is squared. The result is that the dipole-dipole force, which varies inversely as the fourth power between co-linear dipoles, becomes the familiar inverse square force of gravity for extended bodies. The gravitational and inertial response of matter can be seen to be due to an identical cause. The puzzling extreme weakness of gravity (one thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion times less than the electrostatic force) is a measure of the minute distortion of subatomic particles in a gravitational field.

My own idea is that gravity comes from something more fundamental than electric.
Thornhill himself talks about "subtrons", though does not involve them in gravity.

[querious]

.. Then give the foil a static charge and see if the scale changes readings...

There are quite a lot of experiments about this on youtube..

Here is how to build a electic lifter /ionocraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzZy1Aqleno
The ions inside the air start to flow around it and create some lift.

But I have also seen some people claim that this thing also works without air.
Here is one from nasa (it claims):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYMUv1VJ3VQ

Someone made a whole list of "anti-gravity" experiments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnqtIKg ... FD&index=1

Electric gravity
From:
http://www.holoscience.com/wp/electric- ... -universe/
Gravity is due to radially oriented electrostatic dipoles inside the Earth’s protons, neutrons and electrons. [18] The force between any two aligned electrostatic dipoles varies inversely as the fourth power of the distance between them and the combined force of similarly aligned electrostatic dipoles over a given surface is squared. The result is that the dipole-dipole force, which varies inversely as the fourth power between co-linear dipoles, becomes the familiar inverse square force of gravity for extended bodies. The gravitational and inertial response of matter can be seen to be due to an identical cause. The puzzling extreme weakness of gravity (one thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion times less than the electrostatic force) is a measure of the minute distortion of subatomic particles in a gravitational field.

My own idea is that gravity comes from something more fundamental than electric.
Thornhill himself talks about "subtrons", though does not involve them in gravity.

Hi Zyxzevn,
The lifters operate by creating ions near the top charged wire, which are then attracted to the oppositely charged wire or foil. This flow of ions entrains some air molecules, creating a flow which gives lift.

My experiment about the charged foil involves only a positive OR negative charge. If gravity is due to any remnant electric field, obviously a piece of foil with NET static charge on it will react measurably against the presumed electric field creating gravity in the first place. Thus, the idea that gravity has anything to do with electric fields is easily disproved.

[Zyxzevn]

The lifters operate by creating ions near the top charged wire, which are then attracted to the oppositely charged wire or foil. This flow of ions entrains some air molecules, creating a flow which gives lift.

I know this, but it is fair to add the claims that it also works in vacuum, where there are no ions.

Thus, the idea that gravity has anything to do with electric fields is easily disproved.

While I don't believe that gravity is mainly electrical, it needs a better proof.
According to some people gravity can also be magnetic.
Generally gravity is a weak force that works on the amount of matter inside a physical body,
and technically any weak interaction can be that force..

It would be good to have a proper definition of gravity with which everyone agrees.

[querious]

The lifters operate by creating ions near the top charged wire, which are then attracted to the oppositely charged wire or foil. This flow of ions entrains some air molecules, creating a flow which gives lift.

I know this, but it is fair to add the claims that it also works in vacuum, where there are no ions.

That would indeed be surprising. Can you refer to any reputable sources claiming this?

[Zyxzevn]

any reputable sources claiming this?

Would they still be reputable, if they would do so?

See above:

Here is one from nasa (it claims):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYMUv1VJ3VQ

At least something that would not be difficult to test.
Anyone got a vacuum chamber?

[saul]

Standard general relativity includes electric and magnetic fields as active graviational objects. They contribute to the stress-energy tensor.

That being said controled laboratory tests of gravitational fields are really hard. We haven't even been able to measure if a positron falls towards the earth yet.

There have been a few versions of the Cavendish experiment for which the active mass was different isotopic composition, but I'm not aware of any that maintained electric potential differences.

[spark]

if i am getting it right, electrons + mass = result is gravity?