Some thoughts:
I guess I'm curious how many of you think that "gravity" is a phase of The Aether and is therefore
'substantial' such that propagates - is in Motion.
Earlier, Nick posted a link to the video that inspired this thread:
At 5:45 the following is put forth:
The connection then between the Sun and the planets should be envisaged as an ether tightrope. In the current EU model the ether of space is understood, as Wal Thornhill describes it, "to consist of a plenum of neutrinos. In our experience a rope may carry a transverse wave caused by moving one end of the rope perhaps from one side to the other, or perhaps up and down. After some time that transverse motion will reach the other end of the rope.
However, if the rope is made of barely extend-able material, and if one end is tugged, that tug will be felt at the other end very much faster, almost by comparison of the time the tug is made.
This comparison may be likened to the relationship between the transmission of light by transverse electromagnetic wave and the very much faster gravitational attraction between two massive bodies.
Electromagnetic radiation is by its nature transverse but gravitational attraction or, indeed if it is so interpreted repulsion, is longitudinal. - Space News:
What is the Speed of Gravity?
Longitudinal waves are 'compressional'. That to-and-fro compressional movement is designated by the pink arrow in (
this image). They do not form "strands" between celestial bodies; as It moves, interacts, and is absorbed. However, the high vibrational frequency of its to-and-fro compressional nature can be occasionally heard as a high pitched 'shrill', or tone, in the inner ear.
kell1990 wrote:Let's try this for a third time. The gravitational and the electric fields permeate the entire universe. They aren't "going" anywhere, therefore they can't have a speed.
This point, that gravity and electric fields “aren't going anywhere” i.e. that these attributes might not necessarily consist of their own unique Moving substantiality reminds me of Parmenides who basically offered that the various forms of Motion are illusions of the senses. Parmenides was informed that there is only One Existent. Whatsoever the Nature of that One Existent it is said to be
“whole and uniform”: “Nor is it divided, since it is all alike.” With ideas such as the permeability, permittivity, gravity, and impedance giving qualities that “permeate the entire universe “, or so called “free space”, these attributes would then be aspects of that One Existent. These are very old debates of course.
In today’s words
Zeno may not have liked people poking fun at Parmenides and created paradoxes of Motion etc. Some individuals think Zeno’s efforts were genuine; some think he purposefully trying to tie his opponents into endless knots.
No one knows for sure so I tend to discard any ideas that assert that something both is; and isn’t” such as “particle-wave duality”, nonlocality, probabilistic determinations and all of that kind of thing. Instead, I think these notions speak to the inability of language and concepts to fully describe a condition. In other words The Universe cannot be couched into words. As a result there are these concepts developed that try to establish descriptive relations one to another.
As to whether or not "gravity" is substantial and in Motion consider this: A prism differentiates white light as supposedly being composed of some seven colors. For my taste Matter functions similarly with regard to the One Essence. The various attributes (gravity, magnetism, electric field etc) would then be the effects of Matter functioning as a type of prism. As such, Matter similarly causes differentiations in the Motion - and therefore qualities - of what *might be* the substantiality of One Impelling Force aka The Aether. And yet it simultaneously remains Itself. No paradox.
Think this not odd. The whole of physics is trying to unify the forces. There is an intrinsic, almost ineffable, idea that All Forces, things, and conditions are derived from One Source. Needless to say the physics won’t say it like that; but that is the fundamental premise behind all attempts at a “Grand Unified Theory” or “Theories of Everything”. Odder than any of this is that physics cast aside any and all doctrines that have put this same concept forth eons before Greek Philosophy dawned its first toga. Nonetheless that is an interesting idea you've expressed and history shows that it is neither strange nor unique. Very interesting.
That being said I’m so with you on the other point. I agree that the overly obsessed
‘something is faster’ fetish with regard to trying to best the relativistic postulate is both taxing, circular, and has all the appeal of being mesmerized by navel lint. The following link was just posted elsewhere and it’s apparently earth shattering summary reads:
“
The universe seems to like talking to itself faster than the speed of light,” said Steinberg. “I could understand a universe where nothing can go faster than light, but a universe where the internal workings operate faster than light, and yet
we’re forbidden from ever making use of that at the macroscopic level — it’s very hard to understand.” –
New Support for Alternative Quantum View
Yonder rides Zeno twisted in a knot saying that a condition exist; but not?!?! Admission and denial in the same paragraph! What an odd paradoxical thing to say. What kind of shackle are they “forbidden” by?? How is physics “forbidden from ever making use of that at the macroscopic level”??
You know what’s humorous? When the Electrodynamic realm becomes recognized to be its very own
“reference frame” ("electrification" is an event that requires priors) and Superluminal affairs become all the rage of physics – having already recognized this; some of you will become bored … again. I can see the headlines now “Physics in shock; Speed of Light Broken” and the rest of the world will say “Good morning; how was your relativistic nap?”
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
