I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

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MaxGain
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I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by MaxGain » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:38 pm

I have re-posted several EU videos on my facebook page.
I have some friends that are interested in the EU model so we talk back and forth .
There is a guy on facebook I have known for quite a long time that I thought was pretty open minded but I found out after some of his comments that is rather closed minded .
He only tries to debunk the EU theory , I don't think he really knows what it is.
He calls it fake news . Judging by what he says I don't think he has really checked it out.
He says it is all just opinions with no real science to back it up . That sounds to me like the Big Bang model .
He told me he has seen the math , whatever that means. I'm thinking he was referring to theoretical physics , chalkboard science . ( LOL, parden me I heard that term and just had to use it ) .
I don't know how he would know anything about the EU model when he doesn't read any of the papers or know who the scientist involved with the EU are and what kind of credentials they have .
I have read all the EU post that come across my news feed sense I be came aware of the EU model , I have watched at least 50 videos from the Thunderbolts Project , I find it fascinating .
I am not a PHD but the EU model makes sense to me.
I could not get behind the Big Bang theory .
If there was nothing then where did an infinitely dense singularity come from ? and how did it ignite ?
It just appeared out of no where ? Or maybe God reached into the nothing from where ever God lives and lit a match .
It doesn't seem like science .
In my opinion the truth is with a theory like the Big Bang theory , one can only speculate .
Ok That is my rant .

Michael Mozina
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:42 am

In my experience, virtually every so called "skeptic" of EU/PC theory on the internet is like that. The more closed minded they are, the less they actually know about it.

For instance, I've even seen so called "professionals" erroneously claim things on their blogs that are simply not true about EU/PC theory, like asserting that EU solar models predict "no neutrinos". They'll even go so far as to ban numerous individuals for pointing out their obvious errors rather than do a little reading and rescind the false claim.

The notion of "debunking" EU/PC theory is comically hypocritical. They simply ignore the fact that the LCDM model violates the conservation of energy laws, not once, but twice, first with space expansion, and then again with 'dark energy'. If violations of the laws of physics do not 'debunk' the LCDM model, then how can they possibly claim to 'debunk' any other cosmology model based on a lame and less conclusive argument?

I've *never* seen any so called "skeptic" find or list any *specific* (including page number and paragraph) error in any of Hannes Alfven's 100 or so published papers. Instead they typically offer pure handwaves devoid of any actual scientific rebuttal.

The other common and irrational claim you'll hear is the false claim that there's no math to support EU/PC theory. If you read Birkeland's work for yourself, you'll find that a full century ago he included *lots* of mathematical explanations to support his models. Alfven's work includes math as well. Peratt's book "Physics of the plasma universe" is *full* of mathematical explanations. I guess the so called "skeptics" irrationally believe that if they've personally never sat down to study the math, and read the math for themselves, it simply doesn't exist. :)

I would say that "skeptics" in general tend to pretend to "know" things about EU/PC theory when they actually don't, and most of what they think they "know" is usually wrong. That's pretty much a universe trend I see in so called "skeptics" in fact.

The other thing I notice about EU/PC "skeptics", is that the more you point out their scientific errors, the angrier and less rational they get. Since they typically can't justify their beliefs based on an actual scientific argument, they will usually resort to name calling and personal insults. It's obviously a pitiful self defense mechanism, and it's also an almost universal behavior I observe in so called "skeptics".

MaxGain
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:25 pm

Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by MaxGain » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:34 am

I have quit responding to this guy . It has devolved into he is a superior intellect and I am just a dumb ass because I do not except his argument .
The funny thing is the first time I even heard of the EU model was from watching a an EU debunk video , I have watched several of them .
I wanted to find out what the hubbub was all about so I found the Thunder Bolt project on youtube and started watching .
I have not seen any arguments presented on any of those debunk videos that sells their idea.

Electrodynamic
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by Electrodynamic » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:20 am

Maxgain

In my opinion the EU skeptic's are no different than any other skeptic's generally making arguments from ignorance. As well, a common mistake we tend to make is in thinking logic, reason and facts will change there mind which is false.

We are now seeing populist movements rising globally where people actually revel in their own ignorance as a form of status symbol such as the flat Earther's. To understand the psychology look at narcissistic abusive personality disorders, logical fallacies and the term "gaslighting".

The most important point to understand is that while we may have the intellectual capacity to change our mind based on new information and facts they do not. Here's the tricky part... logically if our mind cannot be changed then we cannot learn anything new. If we cannot learn anything new and are intellectually static then we are in fact moving backwards relative to everyone else moving forward making real progress. It's a relative motion thing... static unyielding thinking means were moving backwards.

I understand the general population tends to believe there making progress however there simply running in circles repeating past mistakes giving the illusion of progress. The skeptics are also running in circles and would have us believe this is somehow normal when it's not it's abnormal.
I have quit responding to this guy . It has devolved into he is a superior intellect and I am just a dumb ass because I do not except his argument .
A wise move and unfortunately there is no cure or recourse for narcissistic abusive disorders/close mindedness other than choosing not to participate in there delusion. As I said, you cannot help them and your not going to convince them of anything regardless of the facts.

The upside to understanding there disorders can give our lives order. That is to understand that real learning and not just repetition and memorizing requires real change. Understand all of the most brilliant minds and Nobel prize winners who revolutionized our world were non-conformists and rejected normalcy. They rejected populism/nationalism and embraced individualism, freedom and an open mind.

The best option in my opinion is to move forward and learn new things as an open minded individual as we see fit. It's a big old universe full of countless new and exciting things to learn... why not explore all it has to offer?.

MaxGain
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by MaxGain » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:18 am

Thanks , I agree .

crawler
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by crawler » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:34 pm

Its semantix, but i would like to point out that we should all be skeptical about everything all the time.

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Zyxzevn
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:27 am

crawler wrote:.. I like to point out that we should all be skeptical about everything all the time.
A lot of people think that skeptical means that you have to accept everything
that "specialists" in the area tell us, without any doubt.
As more and more "specialists" rely on each other, this creates a divergence from reality.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

Electrodynamic
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by Electrodynamic » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:56 pm

Crawler
Its semantix, but i would like to point out that we should all be skeptical about everything all the time.
We should also acknowledge that there are different forms of skepticism. There is a general healthy skepticism of everything as a way to reserve judgement until we have all the facts. There is also metacognition and critical thinking relating to self-skepticism or thinking about our own thinking from an objective view point. Then there is narcissistic skepticism where it is presumed everyone else must somehow be stupid and wrong about everything.

The alter-ego of skepticism, is of course, blind faith where some things are never questioned which is not only naive but dangerous. This is because while any given belief can be true within one context in the beginning it can morph or degenerate and become false over time. As such, if the belief cannot be questioned, then the believer must also believe the degenerate version to maintain there integrity to the belief. Which as we know has lead to some of the most heinous acts and crimes against humanity on multiple occasions in the past.

It's best to keep our options and mind ... open.

MaxGain
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Re: I'm sure you all have come across people like this.

Unread post by MaxGain » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:59 pm

Very well said

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