Photonic Aether

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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby rjhuntington » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:17 am

MGmirkin,

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm offering a theory about the aether (not about gravity, which was not at all the point of my post and not the topic of discussion - I''m sorry it got sidetracked).

I have read WT's papers and will reread the selections you mention as they pertain to light transmission through he aether. As best I can tell at a glance, you have not commented on the aether theory I offered, but I admit not having yet perused all you posted.

I am familiar with resonance, being trained in electronics and electrical engineering as well as acoustics.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby webolife » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:39 am

Maybe it was me that sidetracked your question... but your "photonic aether" is a very similar idea to Newton's "gravitational aether", about which he said he would "fein no hypotheses", so I wondered whether you were making a connection or not? It is rather difficult to even mention an "aether" without some connection to universal gravitation, don't you think? Personally, I'm not a big fan of most aether concepts, but the questions aetherists are trying to deal with very much interest me, particularly when implications of a "nonmaterial" aether are put forth.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby junglelord » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:41 pm

Resonance, ay, there's the rub.
With out resonance, Tesla would have packed up and gone home a long time ago.
Without resonance, how would we connect?
I firmly believe that the stars are resonante nodes in the galactic grid.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby Solar » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:05 pm

Rjhuntington, regarding the theory you’ve proposed. Utilizing its central proposition - could the production of electrons via the Photoelectric Effect be the result of the ‘pressure-like wave’ inducing an increase in the resonant frequency and/or amplitude of the existing electrons of a metal to such extent that this ‘excess energy’ is subsequently ‘emitted’ via the formation of ‘secondary’ electrons? This, as opposed to the billiard-ball dynamic of photons (or their wave duality) supposedly ‘hitting’ or ‘knocking’ existing electrons in the metal out of their orbits.

If not, have you given thought to the Photoelectric Effect with regard to the ‘wave-pressure-like’ dynamic of the “Photonic Aether?”
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby webolife » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:19 pm

Yeah, the Newton's cradle analogy for the aether certainly supports the concept of the aether being a perfect solid.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby junglelord » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:28 am

I have come to believe that the aether (rotating magnetic field) behaves as a perfect liquid, solid, gas, plasma.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby Solar » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:34 am

junglelord wrote:... behaves as a perfect liquid, solid, gas, plasma.


Yes.

With a 'wave induced pressure-like' analogy one could conclude the existence of multiple 'phase-changes' such as those represented via a phase diagram with critical points resulting from temperature, pressure, frequency, amplitude etc. Not to mention transition states that may exhibit the qualities of two states such as Liquid Crystals and Mercury.

This is something that I think may cause some confusion as to the concept of an aether. That it may have 'multiple modes' as it undergoes phase-changes. Not to mention the limiting factors imposed by 19th century interpretations of "matter". Solid, liquid, gas, now we have plasma. Whereas, If I'm not mistaken, Aristotle considered the aether to be the 5th state of "matter" with Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Aether.

It seems as if we can become 'stuck' within the realm of what we consider to be "states of matter" and we only relate to those known states. Consider how easy the relatively recent plasma state is being incorporated into the knowledge base and how confused the standard makers waffle between calling it a "gas" or a plasma.

Obviously, simply because we don't recognize or haven't discovered other 'phase states' of matter doesn't mean that they aren't there. We still don't have an adequate answer as to how magnetic and electrostatic "fields" can 'store energy' in the space surrounding an object as "potential". It seems apparent that something about "space" acts like a dielectric.

One can construct a useful "explanation" but this is nothing to rest upon the laurels of and is no substitute for what may actually be functioning within said region of space. Like astrophysical plasma over the last century or so, we could be looking right through (or at) these other 'phase-states' of matter without recognizing them. The concept of "space" as 'empty' has fallen. Yet, "explanations" of astrophysical processes derived from that paradigm still dominate such as with "gravitational lensing." There was no thought of re-transmission/ refraction/reflection/diffraction in the density of plasma and/or the density of solar neutrinos at the edge of the Sun when the beast was unleashed.

Likewise, what properties or state of matter aren't we seeing with regard to "space" when it is acting like a dielectric forming a "field" around objects or to such extent that it can 'transmit' the 'impulse' of a "photonic aether" from point A to point B without the object (photon) actually "traveling" - but instead being punctual on the spot?
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby rjhuntington » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:02 pm

Solar wrote:Rjhuntington, regarding the theory you’ve proposed. Utilizing its central proposition - could the production of electrons via the Photoelectric Effect be the result of the ‘pressure-like wave’ inducing an increase in the resonant frequency and/or amplitude of the existing electrons of a metal to such extent that this ‘excess energy’ is subsequently ‘emitted’ via the formation of ‘secondary’ electrons? This, as opposed to the billiard-ball dynamic of photons (or their wave duality) supposedly ‘hitting’ or ‘knocking’ existing electrons in the metal out of their orbits.

If not, have you given thought to the Photoelectric Effect with regard to the ‘wave-pressure-like’ dynamic of the “Photonic Aether?”


A very interesting question, Solar. In fact I think that all particles are "condensed light" in the sense that the photon is the ultimate particle and everything is some combination of them. If an electron can "give up" a photon by moving to a different orbit, or take one on going the other way, I think that supports the notion.

I think the photoelectric effect is an example of photons causing electrons to move to a higher energy state. There are already plenty of available electrons in every conductive material. I'm not sure where electrons are made or how.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby rjhuntington » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:11 pm

webolife wrote:Maybe it was me that sidetracked your question... but your "photonic aether" is a very similar idea to Newton's "gravitational aether", about which he said he would "fein no hypotheses", so I wondered whether you were making a connection or not? It is rather difficult to even mention an "aether" without some connection to universal gravitation, don't you think? Personally, I'm not a big fan of most aether concepts, but the questions aetherists are trying to deal with very much interest me, particularly when implications of a "nonmaterial" aether are put forth.


Actually I do think the aether is gravitationally involved because if the aether is a sea of photons, as I believe it is, and photons each have a tiny relativistic mass, i.e., mass in motion (what photon is at rest?) that adds up to a lot of mass all together. That could maybe satisfy the 'missing mass' people right there. :D
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:53 pm

rjhuntington wrote:

In fact I think that all particles are "condensed light" in the sense that the photon is the ultimate particle and everything is some combination of them.


Some related research:
A team from Cardiff University’s School of Physics and Astronomy fired light particles, or photons, into a tiny tower of semiconducting material. A photon collides with an electron confined in an even smaller structure within the tower, and they oscillate briefly between the states of light and matter, before the photon re-emerges.

Image
researchers have conducted this experiment with both individual and pairs of photons. They showed that photon pairs increase the frequency of the oscillation between light and matter over individual photons. Their findings agree with theoretical predictions first made in the 1960s.


http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?A ... Newsletter
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The Nature of Waves

Unread postby Solar » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:53 pm

Some Aetheric thoughts:

Photoexcitation, photoionization, photochemical, and the dynamics of photoisomerization are all references to the “transformation of light into other forms of energy” via shell hopping “electron excitation.” Obviously that references the movement of electrons to higher energy states via photon “absorption.” There are a couple of theories from proponents here that incorporate the “encapsulation” of light in similar fashion to one degree or another.

The theory of “Photon Aether” also incorporates a “pressure” or “pressure-like” dynamic. I just keep wondering if there is another ‘force dynamic’ occurring that is analogous to “pressure.” As you’ve stated:

When light leaves the Sun and travels to Earth in 8.3 minutes, that does not mean the photons that drove the light wave have reached the Earth in that time; they have not. The photons that drove the light wave are still near the Sun, not yet having traveled very far. Their movement is more like the movement of electrons in a wire. When a voltage appears at one end of a wire, it is not because the electrons from the other end got through the wire at light speed; they did not. What moves at light speed is the wave, not the charge carriers.


With regard to this something that seems to get overlooked as pertaining waves and the mutually reciprocal ‘transference’ of energy is the concept of “wave coupling.” Although Maxwell’s “radiation pressure” has proven useful - ‘How’ that dynamic occurs would seem to be accurately explained via “wave coupling” as opposed to the dynamics of “pressure.” The two concepts seem very close in their explanatory power but I think the phenomena of “resonance” favors “wave coupling” far better than “radiation pressure.” Particularly, with regard to resonant energy transfer via evanescent wave coupling.

When looking at the dynamics of electricity and plasma in space I think this may be the way electricity resonantly ‘condenses’, ‘compresses’, or ‘constricts’ (useful analogues) into filamentary vortical “currents” and this could also be the “mechanism” that induces the plasma to “self-organize.”

Using the ‘amplitude’& ‘frequency’ of “wave coupling” with the “Photon Aether” (Neutrino Sea works also) it then seems that the dynamics of “attraction” can be explained by the continuous “absorption” of photons between objects and “repulsion” as the continuous ‘expulsion’ of photons between objects. This would then form a continuous dual dynamic that would occur until some relative state of equilibrium was reached, some critical value, at which time two objects would then stabilize and “orbit” along the line of their closest approach as a resonant system while the “absorption”/”emission” of photons remained continuous at a rate beneficial to the system as a whole.

Likewise, objects emitting “photon fields” of higher frequency/amplitude than a second ‘near field’ object could see that second object “repelled” owing to an increase in its kinetic energy via ‘photon absorption’ for said object. However, an observer might then interpret the dynamic as ‘the acceleration of charge in an electric field.’ What may actually occur is that via “wave coupling” no state of resonance could be had to incorporate said “charge” into the resonant system. As a result the more powerful amplitude and frequency of the “field” is translated into an increase in the kinetic energy of and said “charge” and off it goes “accelerated” towards a region more amenable to its presence (equilibrium).

Nonetheless, it seems that when citing “pressure” - waves are subsequent to it. “Pressure” also seems to infer the requirement of a “boundary” or ‘container’ whereas waves only require motion through an initially balanced electrostatic “medium” to kick things off without the necessity of such a “boundary.” Only after an initial disturbance (“stress”) of the electrostatically balanced “medium” or “field” would local “self-organized” regions occur via the subsequent formation of quantized vortices (“particles”), “double layers”, electromagnetically defined “sheaths”, “walls”, “membranes”, etc for resulting resonant systems which would then exist within said “medium” or “field.”

Particularly with regard to Evanescent Waves and Evanescent Wave Coupling

Evanescent Wave Coupling - Wackapedia

It is also interesting to note with regard to “wave coupling”:

“The Tunnel Effect is an evanescent wave coupling effect that occurs in the context of quantum mechanics. Particles behave in a manner calculated with Schrödinger's wave-equations. All waves die away, but according to the laws of physics, the energy in these waves pass on. Wave coupling effects, mathematically equivalent to quantum tunnelling mechanics, can occur with Maxwell's wave-equation…” – Wackapedia: Quantum Tunneling


This is what the link posted by Seasmith also seems to show i.e the production of “hybrid light-matter particles”. These are nothing more than unstable sub vortices 'de-coupled' from higher frequency photon vortices energetically ‘shed’ by the interaction. Anyways, I’m curious as to whether or not thought has been given to ‘wave coupling’ as opposed to an 'aetheric pressure’?

Any comments welcomed.
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:59 pm

Some more Aetheric thoughts:

“ 5.1. Evanescent wave coupling
Over greater distances the non-resonant induction method is inefficient and wastes much of the transmitted energy just to increase range. This is where the resonance comes in and helps efficiency dramatically by "tunneling" the magnetic field to a receiver coil that resonates at the same frequency.”

http://www.witricpower.com/wireless-ene ... upling.htm

Some random mutterings in response to Solar’s ponderings:

“ … but I think the phenomena of “resonance” favors “wave coupling” far better than “radiation pressure.” Particularly, with regard to resonant energy transfer via evanescent wave coupling.

When looking at the dynamics of electricity and plasma in space I think this may be the way electricity resonantly ‘condenses’, ‘compresses’, or ‘constricts’ (useful analogues)… “


~ fluid dynamics analogs might be particulates, coalescence, and flocculation.

into filamentary vortical “currents” and this could also be the “mechanism” that induces the plasma to “self-organize.”


? Can we equate “tunneling” with filamentary propagation ?

You appear to take the concept “electricity” as a primary energy state that is formed, by some ‘harmonic’ principle, into resultant “filamentary … currents”.
Is it also possible that the filaments (electric currents) are primary to the resultant “waves” , or periodic (sometimes harmonic) fields; in an aetheric circuit?
[Or even reflexive, as in an aetheric cycle ?]

“Using the ‘amplitude’& ‘frequency’ of “wave coupling” with the “Photon Aether” (Neutrino Sea works also) it then seems that the dynamics of “attraction” can be explained by the continuous “absorption” of photons between objects and “repulsion” as the continuous ‘expulsion’ of photons between objects. This would then form a continuous dual dynamic that would occur until some relative state of equilibrium was reached, some critical value, at which time two objects would then stabilize and “orbit” along the line of their closest approach as a resonant system while the “absorption”/”emission” of photons remained continuous at a rate beneficial to the system as a whole.”


? Could these “systems as a whole” be viewed as crystalline entities with filamentary axies + ?

Likewise, objects emitting “photon fields” of higher frequency/amplitude than a second ‘near field’ object could see that second object “repelled” owing to an increase in its kinetic energy via ‘photon absorption’ for said object. However, an observer might then interpret the dynamic as ‘the acceleration of charge in an electric field.’ What may actually occur is that via “wave coupling” no state of resonance could be had to incorporate said “charge” into the resonant system. As a result the more powerful amplitude and frequency of the “field” is translated into an increase in the kinetic energy of and said “charge” and off it goes “accelerated” towards a region more amenable to its presence (equilibrium).”



~ Could these “resonant systems” then be viewed as crystal growth / or exclusion ;
In a way that crystals form as a ‘seed’, then grow/ propagate as a fractal larger twin?


“Nonetheless, it seems that when citing “pressure” - waves are subsequent to it. “Pressure” also seems to infer the requirement of a “boundary” or ‘container’ whereas waves only require motion through an initially balanced electrostatic “medium” to kick things off without the necessity of such a “boundary.” Only after an initial disturbance (“stress”) of the electrostatically balanced “medium” or “field” would local “self-organized” regions occur via the subsequent formation of quantized vortices (“particles”), “double layers”, electromagnetically defined “sheaths”, “walls”, “membranes”, etc for resulting resonant systems which would then exist within said “medium” or “field.”


~ Indulging the above, one might then bloat the analogies to presume intra-crystalline and inter-crystalline “boundaries” ; with the transitional interactions between them (either viewed as particulate/photonic or as wave-like) as Not propagations through a vacuum (for there can be no such thing); but as along filamentary trajectories.
“ Fields” then might be considered as ‘matrices of trajectories over a duration’ .

Or even that these harmonic Golden Spirals create duration.

btw, I favor Kevin’s model of an AC or pulsed ‘electric’ generator…

~
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby MGmirkin » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:36 pm

rjhuntington wrote:In fact I think that all particles are "condensed light" in the sense that the photon is the ultimate particle and everything is some combination of them.


Does the photon have an electric "charge" (positive, negative, both, neither)? If not, how does such a charge, as we come to know it, originate if not from the constituent photons that you seem to imply "make up" the heretofore "fundamental" particles?

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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby junglelord » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:45 pm

Since photons turn into electrons and since electrons transform back into photons, they must be a negitive charge association, is that not a logical progression?
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Re: Photonic Aether

Unread postby Siggy_G » Fri May 07, 2010 10:49 am

junglelord wrote:Since photons turn into electrons and since electrons transform back into photons, they must be a negitive charge association, is that not a logical progression?


According to conventional theory at least, photons interact with electrons, and don't turn into electrons. (Well, it quite sounds like they do merge with an electron). Electrons get the energy from a colliding photon transfered into a higher energy momentum. If an electron snaps to a lower energy shell, it releases the energy quanta in the form of a photon of a certain wavelength (i.e. of equivalent energy). Photons are thought to be electrially neutral; from what I understand, not containing any electric charge at all (so not + and -). However, they're said to have two possible polarization states.

If photons were of negative charge, I guess experiments would show that radiating matter would turn into being increasingly positively charged. The photoelectric effect is slightly different from this, because electrons are emitted as a consequence of received energy (photons) "over exciting" their momentum and ejecting them from atomic structures (depending on material). In any case, a surface receiving high energy photons turn positively charged as it releases electrons (but if photons were of negative charge, that surface would become negatively charged as well).
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