2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

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2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby jacmac » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:23 pm

Last night, on the news, the discovery of this object was reported ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_TK7

How might an object have such a strange orbit around a La Grange point ?
Doesn't this put another big EU "foot in the door" of gravity only in space ?

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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby JohnMalone » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:35 pm

This Trojan 2010 TK7 is astonishing! Here is an animation of its bewildering orbit:

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogal ... =103550791

The corkscrew, spiraling orbit makes me think of stacked spins and Miles Mathis' conception of the photon.

As with the very recent announcement of 2010 SO16 (April 6, 2011), which keeps a "horse-shoe" orbit in Earth's orbit, this discovery likely will have a more satisfying explanation using Unified Charge Field theory, than by the convolutions that Lagrange point equations require. See, for example, http://milesmathis.com/aster.pdf, "New C-orbit Asteroids can only be explained by the Unified Field".
We come to our new problems full of old ideas and old words, [words] which experience has shown to be fruitful over the years.... We love the old words, the old imagery, and the old analogies, and we keep them for more and more unfamiliar [and] unrecognizable things. -J. Robert Oppenheimer, 1963 (EJL,BBNH)
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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby webolife » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:26 pm

The seemingly complex orbit [called a gravitational manifold] of a Trojan around a Lagrangian point is easily explained by [not at all convoluted] gravitational models using algebra, which have been used to place other satellites into Lagrangian orbits around the earth. The study of n-body dynamics is a fascinating and highly "non-geocentric" concept.
Now the basic nature of gravity is another matter, and some electrogravitic explanation is likely IMO.
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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby jacmac » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:50 pm

Webolife, JohnMalone, Thanks for your comments.

Would someone be so kind to explain in non math language what a gravitational manifold is. My search so far runs into complicated math which I am unable to handle,

Placing bodies in a LaGrange point is one thing I can sort of understand. But this does not seem to make sense. Usually something "orbits" something else. In a gravity model, where there is only attraction, would not a body be attracted to either the sun , or the earth, or to the La Grange point itself where the gravity from the two bodies is described as balanced ?

Is the "orbit" some kind of "LaGrange" curve that needs to be added to the other LaGrange points. Is this orbit a place where satellites might be placed? Is this orbit showing us where the magnetic field of the earth interacts with, and is in balance with, the magnetic field of the sun as it(earth) orbits the sun ? Perhaps the strong solar magnetic field causes the kidney shape to the 2010 TK7 "orbit" ?

Just thinking out loud, so to speak.
I also think the term electro..will find a place in the explanation; electrogravitic, unified charge field, or ??

Thanks,
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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby jacmac » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:01 pm

After more searching I found this site:

http://www.astro.uwo.ca/~wiegert/2010TK7/rot02e.avi

Watching the animated videos of the "orbit" of this asteroid I am further amazed.

Forget about any idea of a "La Grange curve" that I proposed above, or the interaction of the earth and sun magnetic fields, or gravitation manifold ?(i still need to look into that one more)

How does this have anything to do with the #4 LaGrange point ? Over 390 years it seems to move from closer than the #4 point almost all the way out to the #3 La Grange point on the other side of the sun, then back again.

Perhaps, the other planets are doing this ? Perhaps it is reacting to the eccentricity of the earth orbit ? It is relatively very small.

Oh well, Very Strange!!!

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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby webolife » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:11 pm

N-body problems are notoriously difficult to conceptualize in concrete terms, but you seem to have the jist of the idea. Lagrange points simply describe areas where the gravitational fields of two bodies are in equilibrium. But if you look at the system as a snaphot [ie. a "still life"], you obtain very unintuitive looking orbital shapes. Taking into account the relative motions of all bodies involved makes for some very alien looking calculus for most of us [me, a math teacher, included] and the programming virtuosity required to make the simulations is way beyond me. Mathematical and software black boxes aside, the gravitational manifold is the elegantly twisted and beautiful 4-dimensional luxodromic pattern traced by eg. the Lagrange orbitting satellite WITH RESPECT TO THE LAGRANGE POINT ITSELF. As you were able to see in the videos, the Trojan asteroid orbit is more like a dance in which the partners are attached to each other and to the other people in the ball room by slinkies.
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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby sjw40364 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:51 pm

Of course I cannot say with positive assurance that such is the case, but to me it appears it is caused from magnetic resonance, as it nears the field of converging magnetic fields it is constantly pushed back in the opposite direction. Magnetism is how we contain protons in particle accelerators from just shooting off. It has been previously shown by the EU that the Lagrange points are where the magnetic fields of planets interact with magnetic fields from the Sun, creating a relatively null point in the magnetic fields. It is possible that as the asteroid passed through such it was captured in this null point and is now unable to escape. Of course the words I use to describe it may not be the proper ones, but without going through the TPOD archives I am using the best words I can think of to describe the effect.

It would of course help if we had a word search for the archives, instead of just a subject search. I read the article several days ago but now cannot find it as I do not remember what subject it was under. If I run across it I will be sure to send the link.
Here is something similar, but it is not the one I am seeking. It showed how the Lagrange points were the null points between magnetic fields around the earth.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/mgmirkin08/080919_cluster.htm
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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby jacmac » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:19 am

I follow the above sjw40364 and Webolife about the La Grange points, the magnetic field view of E/U, or the gravitational manifold relating to the "LaGrange point itself".
My question is: if the LaGrange point we are talking about is a "fixed" place, or area, in space relative to the sun and to the earth, how can this object that moves from near the earth, to almost completely on the other side of the sun be described as following or orbiting the LaGrange point?

The second half of this video shows how far away from the LaGrange point/area this object gets to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGmdSbtkFS0

The first part of the video could be seen as being in the LaGrange #4 area. But then after about 200 years it is almost to LaGrange #3. Whether the LaGrange points /areas are gravitational or magnetic, or some combination of both, the orbit of 2010tk7 is very strange. At a minimum this seems to be unexplainable by gravity only. At least to me.

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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby jjohnson » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:25 am

It has been previously shown by the EU that the Lagrange points are where the magnetic fields of planets interact with magnetic fields from the Sun...


Please direct me to the EU source that shows this claim. I must have missed it, and am pretty sure that magnetic and gravity fields have not been shown to be directly connected other than by theorist Miles Mathis. Thanks!

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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby sjw40364 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:40 pm

Well I know why I couldn't find it in the TPOD's, it's not there :). It is From "The Electric Sky: A Challenge to the Myths of Modern Astronomy" by Donald E. Scott, pg 124
here is the original image from NASA
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/990529/index.html
You can see how the L4 and L5 are in large oval shaped areas of the fields, and L1, L2 and L3 are between or on opposing sides of both Earth and Sun. Now how accurate the actual field matches the artists representation is another matter being they seem to know so little about magnetic fields or gravity. NASA is simply trying to explain everything gravitationally, but I would think magnetic fields would do approximately the same thing and create null points in the areas where the two fields would converge, similar to the representation of this gravitational field. The null points may stretch even larger. But it appears as if L2 and L3 may be more gravitational while L1, L4 and L5 are due more to the complicated interactions of magnetic fields. Of course this is just my hypothesis and may not hold any more water than a bucket without a bottom does :lol:
Of course NASA applies it to gravitational forces, but I think magnetic fields would be a more reasonable explanation, or perhaps a combination of both.
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Re: 2010TK7 How does gravity do this?

Unread postby webolife » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:25 pm

For further clarification of MY thinking [as if anyone were interested ;) ], I use gravitation as an action, not as a thing. Whatever causes things to gravitate toward a local center, be it electrostatics/voltage or magnetism or some other universal force or pressure, gravity happens to everything in the universe. This is why catch phrases like "gravity-only" and its counterpart "no gravity" mostly just irritate me.
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