Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

[webolife]

I agree with both Anaconda and Seasmith here.
It is highly probable that salt dome formation is hydrothermal and deeply originating -- this is a departure from a view that I held when you both first knew me. The processes that bring salts to the surface would be secondary igneous or fault related infusions. The diffusion of salt via the earth's ocean current and weather processes follows, with subsequent evaporitic processes producing salt deposits. The identification of Bonneville Flat salts with Pacific Ocean salts makes this last progression fairly clear.

[Anaconda]

Seasmith, I appreciate your comments, however, I'm confused by your contradictory statements.

In your last comment you agree with this statement:

What evidence does suggest is the Utah basin was under water and the pre-historic water level receded. Salt water from that geologic age of high water penetrated deep into the underlying crust initiating super critical water processes and salt deposition along with crust initiated hydrothermal fluid venting.

To which seasmith responded:

Yup.

But in the immediate proceeding paragraph, you, seasmith, make a claim that even the authors of the cited information don't claim:

In the Utah basin, the authors suggest multiple evaporation cycles based on the the nature and source of the intervening sediment layers. There was apparently plenty of of time for the various strata to form and lithify.

The authors do not suggest multiple evaporation cycles based on the "source of the intervening sediment layers."

The only statement your "information" provides that has any implication of "sediment layers" is one I already responded to:

I re-presented this statement from the "information" which seasmith relied upon:

seasmith presented a description of the Utah basin which read, in part:

...[there was] thousands of feet of salt... The resulting Paradox Formation is 65 to 85 percent salt and is interbedded with layers of gypsum and anhydrite.

Both gypsum and anhydrite are products of hydrothermal fluid processes.

If the Utah basin's deep salt formations where formed by repeated evaporations, then one would expect to find repeated layers of siltstone or mudstone shale layers of significant thickness (as each supposed evaporation cycle would leave a thick layer of sedimentary mud, as each cycle supposedly happened over millions of years... plenty of time for thick sediments to form).

But the information, seasmith, you cite makes no mention of repeated layers of silt or mud.

The only "sediment" the cited paragraph makes reference to is gypsum and anhydrite (without explicitly claiming either mineral is a product of sedimentation). Rather, both minerals are products of hydrothermal vents. (Although, it's clear from the paragraph the readers are supposed to assume gypsum and anhydrite are sediments.)

I actually am the one who presented a likely description for the stratigraphic column of a salt pan which had experienced repeated evaporation over a long course of geologic time:

Successive salt pans would be highly layered, salt alternating with layers of mud and/or silt sediment. Mud and/or silt would be the thicker layers, as is observed in today's salt pans...

What is observed in the deep salt is pure halite (salt), remarkably pure, in fact, without mud or silt layers and in areas offshore which show no evidence (other than halite, itself, which is readily explained by the super critical water, hydrothermal theory) of ever being an evaporation salt pan environment. Salt pans invariably have mud or silt layers below the salt because they are a product of sedimentary processes. So, the "crevices" you speak of would be filled in with mud or silt (which is actually what is observed in areas that are the product of sedimentary processes).

Again, no mention of mud or silt layers in the information cited by seasmith.

seasmith, when you get right down to it, the only evidence provided by the information which could suggest successive evaporation layers is the gypsum and anhydrite, as opposed to mud or silt which would be the best evidence of multiple evaporation layers. No, the information relies on circular reasoning: There is a thick layer of salt, therefore, it must be a product of multiple evaporations.

But this is a wrong assumption. And, yet, even after I point this out, you go on repeating it.

You can't have it both ways, seasmith. To agree with the arguments & reasoning I've presented, and then continue to claim "multiple evaporation cycles," such as in your last comment, "In the Utah basin, the authors suggest multiple evaporation cycles based on the the nature and source of the intervening sediment layers. There was apparently plenty of of time for the various strata to form and lithify," is confusing and wrong.

Frankly, I don't think there is scientific evidence supporting the claim that multiple evaporation cycles constitute even a "minor" source for salt domes in the Gulf of Mexico. Rather, that seems just a way to hold onto old and discredited theories, which have been invalidated by new observations. There is no place in Science for "crutches" where falsified theories can keep limping along.

In that way Science is ruthless.

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Abiotic (baryonic) gas is the initial source of the liquids and the salts, wether or not they are collected by trapping morphologies deep below the crust, Or if they seep up through a permissive crust, enter the atmosphere to be chemically transformed, condensed, precipitated, etc, etc; and then laid back down in sedimentary deposits to be transformed Again by heat and pressure.
imho.

Whether all the neccessary, prerequisite abiotic elements start off as baryonic gas as opposed to a liquid or solid, in my opinion, is still unknown.

But "trapping morphologies" are very important. It is right to focus on trapping morphologies and whether hydrocarbons "seep up through a permissive crust" or are trapped in deposits large enough to justify commericial exploration & production.

seasmith, in your several comments "trapping morphologies" is a continuing theme. You are right to emphasize this theme: Oil or natural gas deposits must be restrained by "trapping morphologies" or they will escape into the atmosphere.

I asked you a series of questions:

Seasmith, in your opinion, how far out into the Atlantic Ocean do you think these Brazilian & West African oil deposits exist? How far away from the respective coastlines does this deep salt exist? What do you think of the idea that large, commercial oil deposits could exist all the way out to (or near) the Mid-Atlantic Ridge?

Part of the response included this statement:

The other side of the coin is that more seepage probably means less deposition.

I agree.

And among those physical conditions which effect the trapping ability of the geologic formation are several seasmith mentioned:

[trapping ability depends] upon contingent pressures, lithic porosities and layer geometries (slopes). The duration of particular terrestrial morphologies is also a factor to consider.

All are important.

And, this all goes to a question I posed earlier on the board:

Again, the question is whether abiotic, full-alkane spectrum petroleum is deposited below the seafloor in commerical quantities far off the coasts of the various continents?

The answer may lie in a type of geologic fault known as a Transform Fault...

Wikipedia entry for Transform fault:

A transform fault or transform boundary, also known as conservative plate boundary since these faults neither create nor destroy lithosphere, is a type of fault whose relative motion is predominantly horizontal in either sinistral or dextral direction. Furthermore, transform faults end abruptly and are connected on both ends to other faults, ridges, or subduction zones. While most transform faults are hidden in the deep oceans where they form a series of short zigzags accommodating seafloor spreading (see graphic at right), the best-known (and most destructive) are those on land at the margins of tectonic plates. Transform faults are the only type of strike-slip fault that can be classified as a plate boundary. Transform faults show up on the seafloor as valleys that may be even deeper than the rift valleys of spreading ridges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transform_fault

It needs to be emphasized transform faults are the predominate crustal geologic structure on the ocean seafloor.

While most transform faults are hidden in the deep oceans where they form a series of short zigzags accommodating seafloor spreading (see graphic at right)...

These transform faults run out from the South American continent and the African continent to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, thus, the question: Do commericial sized oil deposits exist within these transform faults and to what extent and how far out to sea do these oil deposits exist?

As previously provided, Offshore magazine had an article discussing the similarities of the South American offshore and West African offshore:

Offshore magazine, Geological similarities with Brazil's pre-salt attract investments to Africa

Available data today, mostly provided by 3D seismic, oil and source rock geochemistry, and 3D basin modeling reveals a close match between the South American and West African margin basins with respect to their pre-salt depositional sequences, including reservoir and source facies of the pre-salt tectono-sedimentary sequences.

This strong similarity allows the predictions of huge discoveries of light oil and gas in the pre-salt sequences of Angola, Namibia, Gabon, and Congo, Marcio Mello, president of the Brazilian Association of Petroleum Geologists and CEO of the recently launched Brazilian company HRT Oil & Gas, told Offshore magazine.

http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/pr ... frica.html

Offshore magazine has a series of three articles, with the first article linked above and a second article going into detail of the Brazilian offshore oil deposits:

Offshore magazine, 3D modeling illuminates Brazil’s presalt geology

In the past three years, four of the eight biggest oil discoveries in the world were in the deepwater Santos basin of southern Brazil, which includes the Tupi, Iara, Jupiter, and Guara oil fields. This area encompasses several other successfully tested prospects such as Bem-te-Vi, Carioca, and Parati fields. Volumes are surprisingly large; up to 18 Bbbls of oil. Such discoveries emphasize that exploration has just begun in most of the ultra deepwater of the Greater Campos basin of Brazil’s southern margin.

The charge and accumulation simulation model for the presalt province suggests a potential reserve in the Cluster area of Santos basin much larger than that reported, getting numbers to 60 Bbbls of oil reserves. The discoveries are of light oil (31° to 37° API) with low sulfur and are lacustrine in origin.

The supergiant accumulations of light oil, condensate, and gas found in the Tupi, Carioca, Parati, Guara, Iara, Bem-Te-Vi, and Jupiter study areas are trapped below a huge evaporitic sequence that can hold significant hydrocarbon column heights, a key to establishing one of the most prolific petroleum systems of the world: The Great Lagoa Feia Petroleum System (Mello, et al., 1995 and 2009).

http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/pr ... nates.html

There is a schematic which illustrates the deep basement fault pattern under the salt, indeed, many of the largest intrusions of salt (halite) appear to emanate from the faults (note "massive halite" above individual or groups of faults in the schematic).

Caption for schematic;

The geological and geophysical stratigraphic and structural framework used in the 3D geological model.

Also, of note is the finding of "volcanoclastics" in the pre-salt stratum suggesting pressure from below and uplift of igneous rocks from within the crust consistent with Abiotic Oil Theory.

Finally, perhaps the most important in the series of Offshore magazine articles is the one that discusses production from these super-giant offshore oil deposits.

Offshore magazine, Perdido advances deepwater GoM production possibilities [subheadline] Project features first spar wet tree direct vertical access wells in waters more than a mile deep

Located in an isolated, ultra-deep sector of the Gulf of Mexico (GoM), Shell’s Perdido is the world’s deepest offshore oil drilling and production platform. Moored in 2,450 m (8,000 ft) of water in Alaminos Canyon block 857, the Perdido development opens up a new frontier in deepwater oil and gas production, and represents a number of firsts in the offshore oil and gas industry. These include:
•First commercial production from the Lower Tertiary reservoir in the Gulf of Mexico
•First full host subsea separation and boosting in the Gulf of Mexico, removing about 2,000 psi of backpressure from the wells
•First spar wet tree direct vertical access (DVA) wells in water more than 2 km (1.2 mi) deep.

Perdido is also the world’s deepest direct vertical access spar, and the facility acts as a hub for and enables development of three fields – Great White, Tobago, and Silvertip. It gathers, processes, and exports production within a 48-km (30-mi) radius. Tobago, in roughly 2,925 m (9,596 ft) of water, will be the world’s deepest subsea completion. The project is operated by Shell Oil Co., which owns 35%; with Chevron (37.5%) and BP (27.5%) owning the remaining interest.

Production from the Perdido development began in March, and is expected to ramp up to annual peak production of more than 100,000 boe/d.

http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/pr ... ities.html

The "Perdido System" of ultra-deepwater oil production can simultaneously produce from many individual wells on the seafloor.

There are as many as 35 wells in the Perdido development plan.

Clearly, the "Perdido System" is the type of technology envisioned by the oil industry to produce petroleum from ultra-deepwater, ultra-deep oil deposits below the seafloor.

Given the series of articles, the South Atlantic basin, starting with the immediate Brazilian and West African offshore areas is predicted to be a huge petroleum producing basin for the foreseeable future as oil exploration stretches farther and farther out into the deep ocean seafloor.

Question: Are these oil deposits being found in transform faults?

The answer would appear to be yes.

Transform zones in the South Atlantic rifted continental margins, W. U. Mohriak and
B. R. Rosendahl (2003)

Abstract
Integration of seismic, potential field, and borehole data from conjugate basins along the South Atlantic continental margin, particularly the northeastern Brazilian and northwestern African segments, indicates that the rift architecture is controlled by fracture zones that extend from the oceanic crust and penetrate through the continental crust, locally corresponding to Precambrian structures in cratonic regions. The fracture zones may divide the continental margin into several compartments with independent sedimentary depocentres, separate crustal domains along oceanic transforms, and affect the rift architecture by shearing. Oceanic transform zones may leak igneous rocks originated from the mantle.

This work discusses conjugate sedimentary basins in the South Atlantic salt basins, particularly from Jacuípe to Sergipe-Alagoas on the Brazilian side, and from Gabon to Rio Muni on the African side. The following aspects are emphasized: (1) rift depocentres are controlled by border faults subparallel to the margin and by transverse faults that may continue as transform fractures in the oceanic crust; (2) the southernmost segment of the South Atlantic continental margins is characterized by Early Cretaceous volcanic rocks that underlie continental lacustrine Neocomian to Barremian syn-rift sediments; (3) the pre-rift sequences (Mesozoic and Palaeozoic sediments) that underlie the syn-rift depocentres in Gabon and Sergipe/Alagoas are mainly devoid of volcanics; (4) there is seismic evidence of magmatic underplating in the deeper portions of the continental crust, which are expressed by antiformal features locally aligned with transform fractures; (5) basement-involved extensional faults and volcanic activity along leaking transform faults are imaged along several conjugate segments of the margin, particularly along the equatorial margin (Romanche fracture zone); (6) in some segments of the divergent margin, the transition from outer rift blocks to oceanic crust is characterized by wedges of seaward-dipping reflectors with a possible origin associated with emplacement of oceanic ridges; (7) locally, the outermost rift blocks near the continental-oceanic crust boundary seem to be highly eroded by post-rift uplift caused by transform fault shearing or by magmatic underplating; (8) tectonomagmatic episodes climaxed in the Late Cretaceous/Early Tertiary in northeastern Brazil and extended to the Late Tertiary on the West African margin, forming large volcanic complexes along transverse lineaments that affect both oceanic and continental crust.

http://sp.lyellcollection.org/content/2 ... 1.abstract

** transverse faults are closely related to transform faults, see above Wikipedia entry for transform faults for explanation.

So, from the above abstract, it is clear transform and the related transverse faults dominate the offshore regions of both Brazil and West Africa and run out into the oceanic deep seafloor and from the offshore magazine articles it is clear these transform faults have super-giant petroleum deposits for which technology exists to produce the oil.

Let's look at what the oil industry is saying about transform faults:

Petroleum Geo-Services, West African Prospectivity

The Gulf of Guinea is proving to be one of the most prolific oil and gas provinces in the world. A series of new, world-class discoveries have been made during the last few years, stepping out into deep water from proven nearshore oil provinces in Nigeria, Equatorial Guinea and Angola.

Geological Evolution of the Gulf of Guinea

The structural framework for prospectivity offshore West Africa was created by the opening of the South Atlantic (Figure 3). The rift phase, or period of initial break-up, started during the Early Cretaceous . The drift phase or sea-floor spreading started during Middle Cretaceous, followed by subsidence of the margins and the oceanic crust.

An important schematic readers need to examine is Figure 3 in the linked information.

Caption for Figure 3

Figure 3: Sketch of early sea floor spreading between Africa and South America. Red areas indicate newly generated oceanic crust. Hatched areas indicate stretched continental crust.

The schematic in Figure 3 presents a transform fault indicative of seafloor spreading.

Petroleum Geo-Services goes on to discuss the petroliferous zones of the seafloor:

Rocks close to the break-up zones are exposed to different tectonic forces, dependant upon their location with respect to plate boundaries. Thus, rocks close to an incipient spreading axis were extended and faulted into grabens or half grabens, accompanied by intrusion and extrusion of volcanic material. Rocks close to the right-lateral transform faults (Figure 3 - cf. offset in the spreading axis) also experience volcanism, but the deformation is similar to what we find along large wrench faults: pull apart basins, normal faults, folds and thrust folds. As sea floor spreading takes place, fracture zones form in the wake of the diverging plates. Fracture zones are normally distinct topographic elements and can delimit sub-basins (Figure 4).

The reader should note where it states, "rocks close to an incipient spreading axis were extended and faulted into grabens or half grabens, accompanied by intrusion and extrusion of volcanic material."

This echoes the description of the Brazilian offshore transform fault region where volcanic material "leaked" from transform faults.

Horsts & grabens have already been identified on this board as being potentially petroliferous crustal fault formations which have "trapping morphologies" so petroleum can build-up into commercially valuble deposits.

So, grabens and half grabens are present in the transform fault region offshore West Africa. Can these faults contain commericial grade oil deposits where tertiary clastics do not provide a thick sedimentary cover over the fault network?

Does the salt, itself, act as a "trapping morphology"?

Here is a false statement in the Petroleum Geo-Services release:

In the transition between the rift and drift phases, marine water entered into the rifted areas and formed evaporates due to the restricted circulation of seawater.

Rather, marine water penetrated deep into the rifted areas where the marine water became super critical due to the attendant heat & pressure, and, thus, once becoming super critical water, the salt dropped out into solid halite deposits as the lengthy & detained discussion above covered. Hydrothermal vents also likely formed, along with the uplifting of volcanic material, thus, causing salt "blooms" (stalks & domes) and salt walls.

Another important schematic for readers to examine is Figure 4.

Caption for Figure 4:

Figure 4: Fracture zones (lineaments in the sea floor topography offshore Africa) in the oceanic crust show right-lateral movement between Africa and South America. Fracture zones also tend to offset sub-basins and affect sedimentation.

This schematic provides the reader with a visualization of the consistent and repetitive geologic nature of this vast offshore area.

Petroleum Geo-Services goes on:

In the Cote d'Ivoire-Ghana-Togo- Benin-Nigeria area the present coastline is more or less parallel to the direction of movement between the Africa and South America when drifting started. It therefore represents a classical transform [fault] margin. The Nigerian coast from Lagos southwards is more or less orthogonal to the direction of movement between the Africa and South America. Hence, this part of the Gulf of Guinea represents a passive margin.

The current Niger Delta is today located close to where a triple junction formed before sea floor spreading. This failed triple junction was formed by the Benue Trough (Figure 3), the spreading axis and the transform fault along the Cote d'Ivoire-Ghana-Togo-Benin- Nigeria margin. There was extension along the Benue Trough up until sea floor spreading began, However, this part of the triple junction then became a failed arm.

http://www.pgs.com/Geophysical-Services ... pectivity/

Triple junctions have been identified and discussed on this board as prolific abiotic petroleum producing geologic fault patterns.

Deep oceanic abyssal plains such as the South Atlantic between Brazil and West Africa, excluding the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, are described as flat and smooth, but at the same time it is acknowledged Science doesn't know a lot about deep ocean abyssal plains. It is claimed a thin and shallow sediment covers the abyssal plains of the world's oceans, but, perhaps, that understanding is wrong.

Perhaps, these series of transform faults (known as ocean seafloor speading faults) which are broken into grabens & half grabens with ridges and volcanics is jagged & pitched with many faults that potentially have "trapping morphologies".

As I wrote before on this board:

Look at the schematic you so kindly provided:



Notice the sharp reliefs or drops into the faults where the horst & graben morphology is quite pronounced. It is not a "monolithic crust", rather, it is a segmented and fractured crust with many structural weakness which act as conduits for salt and oil brine slurry to vertically migrate up & out through the faults from deep within the crust.

Yes, I appreciate the schematic is not to scale, but I also note it's a consistent and repeating pattern, which is seen on the Petroleum Geo-Services overhead schematic presented in Figure 4 in the link above. It is quite possible (even likely) that this pattern repeats all the way to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge on both the South American and West African side of the ridge. It may be that the oceanic abyssal plains are flat and smooth because abyssal water currents have carried sediments over the course of many thousands (millions?) of years to fill in the crevices, cracks, and larger depressions to give the appearance of being flat and smooth, but in reality it's as jagged & pitched as those areas closer to shore and the "trapping morphologies" are internal to the fault network, itself, including salt formations, and not dependent on clastic, overlying turbidite formations for the necessary "trapping morphologies."

It's true both in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of Brazil and possibly off the West African coast, as well, that conventional wisdom thinks clastic, overlying turbidite formations are necessary "trapping morphologies" for the build-up of large commericial oil deposits. But what is found in numerous onland oil deposits is the oil is trapped within the faults, themselves, and not within the sediment above the fault. Perhaps, this also occurs in the deep oceanic abyssal plains, too.

[seasmith]

But in the immediate proceeding paragraph, you, seasmith, make a claim that even the authors of the cited information don't claim:

seasmith wrote:
In the Utah basin, the authors suggest multiple evaporation cycles based on the the nature and source of the intervening sediment layers. There was apparently plenty of of time for the various strata to form and lithify.

A,
ok, so it was a bad reference.
correct, not in the Gulf of Mexico.
for seep, see first post in thread

i don't blame you for being confused,
seasalt

[jone dae]

Hi, I'm new to this forum, but have enjoyed reading over your dialogs. Most interesting were those who argued for an abiotic origin of petroleum, or oil, and acknowledged the petroleum rains that were historically noted, as were hydrocarbon rains as well. But, some of them then went on to assert a 'deep' geological origin for oil, and I would like to see more studies that have found these deep geological sources. Also, the work of Alfred De Grazia is relevant here; some excerpts:
About the past 14,000 years or so when the petroleum and hydrocarbon rains occurred (and clearly he’s not asserting that those rains occurred only since then-)
“It can be asserted and defended that in the past fourteen thousand
years, a disorder befell the solar system that terrorized and
transmutated the sensible biosphere, changed the atmosphere,
cleaved and ravaged the crust of the earth, altered drastically
the sky and surface waters and destroyed or severely damaged
every civilization up to the seventh century before the present
era. During these fourteen thousand years, it can be argued,
human groups spent one-third of their time in an environment
of natural and social chaos and suffered intense physical and
mental stress. Again I refer to the book, Chaos and Creation.
Continents were fractured; mountain ranges rose; crustal
material was exploded into space; cataclysms of water, ashes,
oils, gases, and fire rained from the skies; ice ages came quickly
and avalanched, not melted, into oblivion. Oceans were created;
seas were drained; floods raged in every direction up to the very
mouths of highly placed caves; climate altered in a day and the
atmosphere was deprived, enriched, and poisoned on numerous
occasions.
No single mile of the surface of the world can be bored for its
actual stratigraphic column without discovering it to be at some
points a catastrophic column. No matter what part of the
destruction can be assigned to the ages before man, some part
of it has to be attributed to the ages of man. Settlements and
civilizations everywhere, from the Arctic Sea to the Tropics,
from Spitzbergen to Tiahuanacu, are now, upon exhumation,
shown to have been the victims of such events [1]. “ –Homo Schizo I Ch. 3.

About the probable source of such hydrocarbon and petroleum rains -
“G.Talbott (1978) has proven “in a fully quantitative manner that
a massive, molten body -- quantitatively a mass equivalent to
Venus and having the Venus surface area, and molten at
between 1500° K and 2000° K -- will transfer heat internally by
flowing magma, and will radiate its heat in such a way that in
exactly 3500 years its temperature is expected to be exactly 750°
K, which by measurement it is.”
She generated many millions of tons of burning pitch and
petroleum that fell along a broad swath of the Earth that turned
in her path [10]. Countries grow rich today from the oil rains that
ruined ancient “Arabia felix.”
And when she crossed orbits with the planet Mars, a mighty
battle of the gods ensued which their human champions
emulated. “ –from Chaos & Creation, Ch.10

About the updated global chronology that so upsets uniformitarians, a quote from one of De Grazia’s critics –
“As you painfully-well perceive, the most vulnerable side of your
book has to do with the absolute chronology of events. I remain
quite unpersuaded that the holocene period is as catastrophic and
as crowded as you make it out to be. One can take 14,000 years
ago as its beginning (many dates have been roughly of this
order), but you are claiming to include in the period, explicitly or
implicitly, the whole Paleolithic (which now means the
Quaternary plus upper Tertiary) in respect to humans, the
Triassic (-200 my) with respect to the Spreading of the ocean
basins and laying of the ocean bottoms, the carboniferous (-300
my) with regard to coal and oil deposits, the Cambrian ( -500
my) insofar as Grand Canyon is included, and the Precambrian (
-600 to -2500 + my), when it comes to atmospheric changes, the
coming of the Moon, the newness of gases, uranium flux and so
on. In fact, you go about placing whatever you think appropriate
whenever in time your theory requires that it must have
happened. About the only law of time that you seem to obey is
the principle of superposition. which is only a relative ordering
of times and which you appear to think can permit anything to
occur in the absolute measure of time. “ –from Chaos & Creation, Ch. 11

Excerpt about the chemisty & physics, and resultant geological and atmoshoeric changes, that can account for oil fields cited in the forum, including those of Kuwait & Arabia (the estimates of global oil reserves here are Kelly and Dachille’s not De Grazia’s):
The great pass-bys may be more important to history and more
thoroughly destructive, but small and medium-sized meteoroid
impact explosions, such as the Ishim, Tunguska, and Phaeton,
are heavily damaging. Geologists Kelly and Dachille have
calculated the effects of an explosion of a 200-mile diameter
“Intruder”, somewhat smaller than one which they believed fell
at “Bermuda” within recent times, possibly in the Jovean or
Mercurian period.
Approaching tangentially the Intruder would have scorched
through 1100 miles of atmospheres at a speed of 20+ miles per
second at temperatures (~7500° c+) greater than the Sun’s
surface. From 8 to 60 second seconds’ exposure would be
suffered below its path. It would occupy at an 80-mile elevation
over 100 degrees of the total dome of the sky (180°). It would
theoretically generate then and upon impact biosphere residues
enough to produce all of the known coal and oil reserve in the
world.
The temperature at the moment of impact would rise to over
200,000° C.
“An actual collision would raise a column of vapor and
debris that easily could measure one thousand miles in
diameter at the base, and possibly larger at the top after the
fashion of the atom bomb explosions. This column might
tower something like five thousand miles above the earth,
the higher particles doomed to float out beyond the reach of
gravity… This catastrophic column would be “a gigantic
chemical laboratory,” arranged in levels downwards,
outwards and upwards. Its pyrolysis would continue for
some time to “add to the generation of coal beds, oil crudes,
baked shales, sand-stones, firerock, hard pan, and to many
specific, but generally unexplained mineral forms. At ‘zero
point,’ conditions being so extreme, it is not unreasonable to
suppose that actual transformation and the very synthesis of
elements would take place.”[8]
Fundamental dissociation would occur and rearrangements of
protons and electrons forced into being. Heavy metals such as
uranium and thorium might be formed, with their radioactive
properties. In a breathtaking sentence, the authors ask whether
we can “see in the radioactive elements one course taken by
nature to absorb and store a portion of the high energy of the
impact, with the energy escaping gradually due to an imperfect
storage structure within the nuclei of these elements.”[9]
Grading away from “Point Zero” would be ionic and elemental
fabricating zones and zones where more stable compounds are
generated. Rock salt would descend from intensely heated
bodies of water blown from their basins, or it would form soon
after the landing and evaporation of the waters. –from Chaos & Creation, Ch. 2

Further observations about what would happen during the Venus (or large body) event:
“When the Earth changes motion, fires break out. When
meteoroids fall, fires break out. When lightning strikes, fires
erupt. When gases penetrate the atmosphere, fires explode. All
of these accompany and occur in the aftermath of large-body
encounters and significant meteoric fall-out. Persuasive accounts
come down from legends of many peoples concerning the
burning of the world. One of the most astonishing groups of
legends, set forth by Velikovsky and others, treats of rains of
Q-CD vol. 2: Chaos and Creation, Ch. 2: High Energy from Space 36
burning oil [11]. It is difficult to put aside these reports, which
are associated with the cometary tail of Venus in the fifteenth
century B.C. The falling substances are both in flames and
unburned, they have the stickiness, the flammability, the
noxiousness, the denseness of petroleum and bitumens. They
could not have been lofted by volcanoes or exploded by local
pressures of oil reservoirs underground. They might be
manufactured, however, in the “chemical factory” of a meteoroid
impact. –from Chaos & Creation, Ch. 2

And:
“In all large-body encounters and minor extra-terrestrial invasions
there will occur fall-outs of dense material. Dust, stones,
brimstone, ash, micro-tektites, oils, and other material will
descend with or without water. All will bury or devastate the
biosphere by poisoning and asphyxiation. A geologic column
will reveal some extra-terrestrial or at least catastrophic element
of fall-out of one or more of these materials. A recent study, by
Woods Hole oceanographers, of American land and shallow sea
cores shows the presence in the soil of ancient polycyclic
aromatic hydrocarbons, which are carcinogenic [17].
Extraterrestrial and explosive fall-out includes radioactive
material along with the dense material product. Some of the
radioactivity will enter because the bars are let down to the
intrusion of “normal” cosmic and solar particles. Much will be
“a la carte,” produced by the peculiar invading agency and the
destruction of its materials in the atmosphere of the Earth.” -Chaos & Creation, Ch. 2

Where other scholars discuss his assertions (about Venus and hydrocarbons):
“In the section ‘The Gases of Venus’ in W. in C. (1950), I concluded
that Venus must be rich in hydrocarbons. This theory
was termed ‘surprising’ (H. Shapley, 1946) when, a few years
in advance of the publication of my book, I requested that
Harvard College Observatory make a spectral search for
hydrocarbons in Venus’s atmosphere [15]. In 1955, Fred Hoyle
proposes, on theoretical grounds, that Venus is covered by
oceans of oil and that its atmosphere is clouded by hydrocarbon
droplets [16]. I, however, wrote: ‘...as long as Venus is too hot
Q-CD vol. 15: The Velikovsky Affair, Correct Prognosis 221
for the liquefaction of petroleum, the hydrocarbons will
circulate in gaseous form.’ (W. in C., p. 169).
The extraterrestrial origin claimed in my book for at least part
of the petroleum deposits, notably those of the Mexican Gulf
area, was scorned (C. R. Longwell, 1950)[17], and it was
asserted that petroleum is never found in recent sediments (J. B.
Patton, 1950).[18] However, soon thereafter, P. V. Smith
(1952)[19] reported the ‘surprising’ fact that the oil of the Gulf
of Mexico is found in recent sediment and must have been
deposited during the last 9,200 plus or minus 1,000 years.
Hydrocarbons were subsequently found on meteorites, a fact
termed by H. H. Nininger (1959)[20] also ‘surprising’: ‘These
resemble in many ways some of the waxes and petroleum
products that are found on the earth.’ Several months ago, A. T.
Wilson (1962)[21] postulated an extraterrestrial origin of the
entire terrestrial deposit of oil. In W. in C. (p.55), presence of
hydrocarbons on meteorites was anticipated. The experiment in
which high molecular weight hydrocarbons were compounded
from ammonia and methane with electrical discharges (Wilson,
1960) [22] supports the view that the planet Jupiter (rich in
ammonia and methane) was the source of the hydrocarbons on
Venus, on meteorites, and in some of the earth’s deposits (W. in
C., ‘The Gases of Venus’). –from The Velikovsky Affair, chapter 7, Correct Prognosis.

[jone dae]

Some of you will want to read the original documents for Alfred De Grazia, or read the references there, etc. So, some links for you:
We maintain a collection of his works here: http://bit.ly/rSF161 (our Documentation & Referernces folder);
And you can also find them here: http://www.grazian-archive.com/quantavo ... Series.htm ,
here: http://www.grazian-archive.com/quantavo ... t_here.htm
and here: http://www.grazian-archive.com/quantavo ... t_here.htm .
Links for further information here: http://fascistoar.blogspot.com/2006/02/ ... ework.html ,
here: http://www.grazian-archive.com/autobiog ... grazia.htm ,
and here: http://www.sis-group.org.uk/resource.htm ,

-Replies?

[Anaconda]

jone dae:

Welcome to the Thunderbolts Forum.

Hi, I'm new to this forum, but have enjoyed reading over your dialogs. Most interesting were those who argued for an abiotic origin of petroleum, or oil, and acknowledged the petroleum rains that were historically noted, as were hydrocarbon rains as well. But, some of them then went on to assert a 'deep' geological origin for oil, and I would like to see more studies that have found these deep geological sources. Also, the work of Alfred De Grazia is relevant here; some excerpts: [...]

Yes, comet oil has been previously discussed on this board:

Have the folks on this thread considered oil from comets in the upper regions of the Earth's crust. Especially Oil Shale, and the massive pools of oil under the sand in the Middle East. Also the oil in Bituminous Coal.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepi ... 90705.html

The link above has Aromatic Hydrocarbons, and carbonates in the coma of Temple 1

I'm not opposed to deep earth production of oil. Just open to comet oil.

The discussion of comet oil starts on page 11 of this board:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2150&start=150#p32156

(Occasionally, the above type link is disrupted due to additions to the board out of sequence, but should work for now.)

Here are a couple of responses to starbiter's post:

I'm not opposed to deep earth production of oil. Just open to comet oil.

I am with you there. The two are not mutually exclusive, but are actually complementary. Whatever processes produce hydrocarbons in the deep Earth would no doubt be in action on other worlds:

The abiogenic hypothesis argues that petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. The presence of methane on Saturn's moon Titan is cited as evidence supporting the formation of hydrocarbons without biology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Saturn's Methane Moon:
http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/2070/ ... thane-moon

If one accepts some form of planetary catastrophism then the possible extraterrestrial origin of at least some petroleum deposits could be expected.

Nick

And my initial response:

Hi nick c:

starbiter wrote:
I'm not opposed to deep earth production of oil. Just open to comet oil.

nick c wrote:
I am with you there. The two are not mutually exclusive, but are actually complementary. Whatever processes produce hydrocarbons in the deep Earth would no doubt be in action on other worlds:

(...)

nick c wrote:
If one accepts some form of planetary catastrophism then the possible extraterrestrial origin of at least some petroleum deposits could be expected.

It is without dispute that hydrocarbons from meteorites have been found on Earth. The question becomes how much of the hydrocarbons on Earth are from meteorites? Well, that would depend on how many meteorites with hydrocarbons fell to Earth (not all meteorites have hydrocarbons embedded in them) and how concentrated the meteorite showers fell and so forth. There are a lot of unknowns which prevent a definite answer. But I would suggest that it is a lessor than a greater amount. This discussion has primarily focussed on ultra-deep oil in large reservoirs. Ultra-deep oil concentrated in large reservoirs is less likely to be from meteorites.

starbiter wrote:
Have the folks on this thread considered oil from comets in the upper regions of the Earth's crust. Especially Oil Shale, and the massive pools of oil under the sand in the Middle East. Also the oil in Bituminous Coal.

It is not likely that the "massive pools of oil under the sand in the Middle East" is the result of hydrocarbon emplacement by meteorites.

Let's look at the Ghawar oil field, the largest oil field in the world in Saudi Arabia:

Under the Ghawar oil field there is an active fracture network in the crystalline basement much as has been discussed previously for other oil fields of the world and the oil rises up from this fracture network and is lodged in sedimentary trapping structures:

Ghawar is a large north-trending anticlinal structure, some 250 kilometers long and 30 kilometers wide. It is a drape fold over a basement horst, which grew initially during the Carboniferous Hercynian deformation and was reactivated episodically, particularly during the Late Cretaceous. In detail, the deep structure consists of several en echelon horst blocks that probably formed in response to right-lateral transpression. The bounding faults have throws exceeding 3000 feet at the Silurian level but terminate within the Triassic section.

http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/docum ... /index.htm

What is interesting about the, above, passage is that while Ghawar is described as "over a basement horst...and was reactivated episodically...[and] the deep structure consists of several en echelon horst blocks...", the, above, passage makes no link between this active basement structure and the ultimate source of the oil (perhaps, the conventional view blinds the author to this connection).

Others, however, have made this connection explicit:

These oil field structures are mostly produced by extensional block faulting in the crystalline Precambrian basement along the predominantly N-S Arabian Trend which constitutes the 'old grain' of Arabia. This type of basement horst, which has been periodically reactivated, underlies the world's largest oil field, Ghawar, and other major oil fields, such as Khurais, Mazalij and Abu Jifan. The basement horst beneath Ghawar Anticline has been suggested by Aramco (1959), from a positive Bouguer gravity anomaly which practically mirrors the field, and more recently, in greater detail, by Barnes (1987).

All Saudi Arabian offshore oil fields, and some near coastal fields, such as Abu Hadriya, Abqaiq and Dammam, are also produced by basement faulting which has cut the saliferous, Upper Precambrian Hormuz Series, triggering deep-seated salt diapirism.

(See, Basement tectonics of Saudi Arabia as related to oil field structures, by H. Stewart Edgell:)

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/brcgranier/ ... l_1992.htm

It might also be intellectually fruitful to take a look at Iraq and its tectonic setting:

Iraq is part of the Zagros and Arabian sedimentary provinces, according to St. John et al. (1984) (Figure 1). The former is a folded belt, related to A-subduction; and the Arabian province is a foredeep, in which the ramp has buried grabens, but with little blockfaulting (St. John et al., 1984). Fields are present in both provinces (Figures 2, 3, and 4). Konert et al. (2001) consider the foredeep in front of the Zagros (Figures 5 and 6) as a part of a very widespread stable platform. Versfelt (2001) shows the Zagros ãForeland Basinä to flank the the Zagros mountain front from the northeast-trending Khleissia high in the north to Hormuz in the south (Figure 6). The Zagros sedimentary province includes the Kirkuk (Sirwan) embayment, Lurestan, Dezful Embayment (Khuzestan), and Fars, the last three being predominantly in Iran. The embayments are the most prolific oil-producing areas. The fields, generally spectacular anticlines, trend northwest, except north of Mosul, where the folded belt becomes more easterly (Figure 7). Outside the Zagros belt are north-trending fields (e.g., Rumaila) and northwest-trending fields (e.g., East Baghdad). The fields in Southern Iraq trending north seemingly are related to fields in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia with similar orientation, which parallels extensional fault trends. Maps of fields, cross-sections, and generalized stratigraphic columns/diagrams are shown in Figures 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16.

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /index.htm

This paper provides a series of maps and schematics that lay out the geologic structure of Iraq: After study it is evident that the oil fields are found in close association with geologic structures and is likely not evidence of build-ups of meteorite hydrocarbons which would likely not be so closely associated with internal geologic structures.

Figure 5. from the paper is a good schematic for outlining the geologic structure of Iraq:

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... ges/05.htm

So, while definite answers regarding the amount of meteorite hydrocarbons is impossible, the best evidence suggests that most hydrocarbons in the Earth's crust are the result of internal Earth dynamics and not the result of meteorite bombardment.

My response focussed on hydrocarbons in meteorites because there is evidence supporting that proposition in the form of carbonaceous chondrites, themselves.

My response directly to the possibility of comet oil:

Hi starbiter:

Starbiter asked:
What is your problem with comet oil?

I have no problems with comet oil, on the contrary, I was the one who brought up hydrocarbons found in meteorites, in the first place.

And I already responded to one of your comments, explaining that comet oil would be possible, but that the oil deposits in the Middle East are not consistent with comet oil because the deposits are too large & concentrated (19 cubic miles of oil pumped from Ghawar so far) and there are fracture zones in the basement (bedrock) directly under the Ghawar oil field in Saudi Arabia which provide scientific evidence for where the oil emanates from, as there are fracture zones in the basement under the other Middle Eastern oil fields...

My comment regarding Velikovsky:

Hi starbiter:

In regards to the issues raised by Velikovsky in his book, let me say, I don't follow Velikovsky word for word and as I understand it, neither do the leaders of Electric Universe. Velikovsky is a jumping off point and his work is valuble for starting the discussion and has stood the test of time for being a pioneering voice.

My purpose here is not to discredit Velikovsky, rather, it's to demonstrate hydrocarbons are abiotic, and as the succeeding comments have shown, there is an 'electric' connection between hydrocarbons deep in the Earth and electromagnetic processes, indeed, it's my opinion that Abiotic Oil is formed through an electro-thermo-molecular bonding or chemical reaction process.

But, some of them then went on to assert a 'deep' geological origin for oil, and I would like to see more studies that have found these deep geological sources.

There are numerous reports cited on this board of ultra-deep hydrocarbon deposits (oil wells) both offshore & onshore deeper than 20,000 feet below the Earth's land surface or seafloor, as ultra-deep hydrocarbon deposits are a prime evidence for Abiotic Oil Theory.

In fact, while the depth of the oil deposits was not emphasized in the immediate discussion of offshore Gulf of Mexico, offshore Brazil, and offshore West African oil deposits, each area has been previously discussed in specific terms of depth of deposit & temperature of the deposit.

[starbiter]

Hello Anaconda: Since Dr Velikovsky's death, he has done a terrible job of defending himself. There are few qualified to defend Velikovsky properly. Nick C is probably my favorite.

I was told by "THE" EU insiders that Venus was an electric comet. So Velikovsky still has standing in EU.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... 9VUW8/edit

The dates of the events will never be settled. But what's clear is that oil rained from above, day and night. It rained oil day after day. The rivers rain with oil. People climbed trees to escape the oil. The oil killed more people than all the other disasters, in some cases. This is basic EU.

The oil settled in basins full of clay. This mixture seems to have been zapped into oil shale. Other oil mixed with dolomite. The dolomite is best explained as comet dust. Oil is usually found in shale or dolomite.

Nasa has found dolomite and clay in the coma of comets.

http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=107

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepi ... 90705.html


If your not comfortable with the catastrophic model, why do You post HERE? This is a catastrophic forum, based on an electric comet Venus, which You ignore, by claiming meteorites aren't adequate. The difference between comet Venus and a meteorite seems obvious.

Dr Velikovsky thought there had been many electric catastrophes, not just Venus. He also felt the depth of the oceans have changed repeatedly. This could easily explain finding comet, or star oil, at great depths.

Most of the oil produced today seems to be around 8,000 to 10,000 feet deep. At least in the western USA. The material above the oil in shale and dolomite could be of recent origin.

Below is a link to Worlds in Collision. Some of the talk about fire may have been glowing plasma. Please see the section about naptha. Half way down page 53.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision

Oil from deep Earth origins seems possible. Oil from deep Earth origins would require long periods of time from your descriptions. This presents a problem with a catastrophic model, favored by EU.

Oil from cometary sources seems obvious to me. If the process, as described in WiC, covered the surface of Earth to a great depth, then a slow, deep abiotic model has problems. Especially getting the oil into impermeable shale. Of course oil from a comet would also be abiotic.

I meet a leader of the abiotic oil movement [i will find his name shortly] at NPA 18 in Maryland. He was elderly with white hair. We had a pleasant lunch. He was completely open to comet oil, as described by Dr Velikovsky. I'm confused at the reluctance of many abiotic oil proponents to consider abiotic comet oil.

michael steinbacher

[seasmith]

This is NOT a catastrophic forum

During the Cretaceous, 139-65 million years ago, shallow seas covered much of the southern United States. These tropical waters were productive–giving rise to tiny marine plankton with carbonate skeletons which overtime accumulated into massive chalk formations. The chalk, both alkaline and porous...

~New areas for O&G exploration ?






http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/nam.html

[starbiter]

Hello Seasmith: If You look at the top of the page You'll notice that the Thunderbolts Forum is for the discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology. Because Earth is under discussion Plasma Cosmology is not in play. Electric Universe is based on catastrophism. Period! Because You're not comfortable with catastrophism doesn't change things.


From the Electric Universe website. By Wal Thornhill

http://www.holoscience.com/wp/synopsis/ ... e-history/

For me, enlightenment began with the controversial polymath and author of Worlds in Collision, Immanuel Velikovsky. In 1950 he demonstrated an interdisciplinary, comparative technique for uncovering hard evidence of planetary catastrophe from the recorded memories of the earliest civilizations. His method was forensic in that he looked for reports of physical events of a highly unusual nature that were nonetheless corroborated globally by totally separate cultures. Then by applying scientific knowledge of cause and effect, it was possible to build a very detailed model of the sequence of those events. Finally, the model enabled specific predictions to be made and confirmed – a requirement of a good scientific theory. Some of the predictions he made were outrageous at the time: Venus would be near incandescently hot, Jupiter would emit radio noise, the Moon rocks would be magnetised, and so on. Velikovsky was right, astronomers of the day were wrong. However, you will not find any textbook that gives him credit because his theory was judged to be wrong. Presumably they were all lucky guesses!

Me again,
This seems rather clear. Wal goes on to say that the history [dates] is in doubt. That still makes the Electric Universe Forum a catastrophic forum. This discussion on an upper board of the Electric Universe Forum should always consider a catastrophic scenario. If not, this discussion should be on new insights and mad ideas, IMHO.

Below is what is to be discussed on this board.

Electric Universe - Planetary Science
Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

michael steinbacher

[seasmith]

Hello Seasmith: If You look at the top of the page You'll notice that the Thunderbolts Forum is for the discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology. Because Earth is under discussion Plasma Cosmology is not in play. -starbiter

I've been working under the presumption that this is a Scientific forum. If not, probably a lot of us have been wasting our time. There are plenty of sites out there devoted to pseudo-science, for those so inclined.

If one thinks that planets are Not part of an "Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology", perhaps they are in the wrong forum.

Electric Universe is based on catastrophism. Period! Because You're not comfortable with catastrophism doesn't change things. -starbitter

I am Very comfortable with "catastrophism. Period!",
and also with science.

Below is what is to be discussed on this board.

Electric Universe - Planetary Science
Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

michael steinbacher

Where did you find this ?

Respectfully,
seasmith

[starbiter]

Hello Seasmith: Please see Board Index on the upper left of this page. Then Electric Universe-Planetary Science. The statement could not be more clear.



michael

[seasmith]

by starbiter » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:05 pm

Hello Seasmith: Please see Board Index on the upper left of this page. Then Electric Universe-Planetary Science. The statement could not be more clear.



michael

Yup,we are reading the same criteria:
"Electric Earth"


seasmith

[starbiter]

by starbiter » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:05 pm

Hello Seasmith: Please see Board Index on the upper left of this page. Then Electric Universe-Planetary Science. The statement could not be more clear.



michael

Yup,we are reading the same criteria:
"Electric Earth"




seasmith

Catastrophic electric Earth.

michael

[jone dae]

I'd like to post a few replies... each person will know which reply is for them. Sorry if that's unorthodox, but I am pressed for time here. RE/this being a catastrophist forum (I prefer Quantavolutionist (as opposed to Evolutionists and Uniformitarians), it seems that, the forum is technically "for disucssion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology", but, as I've said in my e-mail to Dave Talbott, you can't begin discussing that, without discussing us: humans, on earth, and our history. How does the electric u. model and plasma cosmology, change what took place in history, and what happened to our planet?
So, what I'd like to say, is that, I follow De Grazia's methods in my own investigations, and look at the problem the other way around. For example, all of the dating methods, all of the methods of establishing chronologies for the histories of the earth, biological life, humans, etc., are seriously flawed. De Grazia lists and discusses the flaws in the dating methods, which include, some scientists interpreting results in ways that support their models, rather than the usual ways, or the way that science would indicate. I'm glossing over here since ADG has detailed all that.
I knew for years about the flawed dating methods and that the earth's history as taught in schools was a Story, a Myth; but I didn't mind as long as no harm came of it. That is, I knew that the true history of humans and our planet was different from the one taught in schools and textbooks, but didn't really have any better ideas until I found the writings of Don Scott and ADG. They're not associated in any way, and probably don't know each other, I just found them at about the same time; and their respective models of the universe and of the earth's history, are much, much better than the traditional ones: much more scientific, accurate, factual, cross-diciplinary, and satisfying Occam's razor on many points.
So, when I see a post, with continents slowly creeping over the earth's surface over millions or billions of years, and the old-school, traditional, names of periods, "The Cretaceous", etc., all that, I just see someone who believes the old, traditional myths. It's not much different from Jurassic Park, or in cosmology, from the Black Holes In Space that seem like something Walt Disney invented, after Fantasia but before the time of Pixar. Yes? In otherwords, all that is so ridiculous.
So, even though the man who said that this in not a catastrophe forum was wrong, I wouldn't want to see him shut up or shut out, that would be wrong. I left the Bohm Dialog forum for reasons like that. Rather, my objection, is that it takes time for a person to see what's wrong with the old myths he was taught in school, and perhaps this forum is not the right place for that. That's why I provide all those links, so that any serious scholar or researcher can sort-of go off and do some studying on his own first, and then come back to this forum. BTW I'm still relatively new myself. For instance, I didn't read my first Velikovsky book until 2009, even though I'd seen them around since the 70s. That is, I investigated and double-checked first, before accepting that the Quantavolution model of earth and human history was the correct one; and it is implied by the Electric/Plasma U. model. For instance, Solaria Binaria was written by ADG and Earl Milton. Milton was one of the first modern astronomers, along with Ralph Juergens, to develop explanations of descriptions of cosmogony using the new model.
So, a contributor or poster doesn't have to accept the EU model, but it does truly slow down the process, when others have to take the time out to explain what's wrong with the old models, the old myths. However, to help such a person, I can provide more links to sites and videos of interest... from research lists that my partner and me have been developing since about 2007, basically as a hobby. So, if anyone is interested, I can provide links to other papers, books, etc., documents in pdf, etc., other formats, on these subjects.
Jone Dae

[Chromium6]

Another huge trap in Turkey that is similar to Ghawar:

Is the Largest Petroleum Trap of the World in NW Turkey: Korudag Anticlinorium in the South Thrace Basin?*

Samil Sen and Selin Yillar
Search and Discovery Article #70058 (2008)
Posted December 9, 2008

*Adapted from poster presentation at AAPG Annual Convention, San Antonio, TX, April 20-23, 2008.
Geology Department, Istanbul Univeristy, Istanbul, Turkey (samilsen@istanbul.edu.tr)


Abstract

The oil and gas-bearing Thrace Basin (NW Turkey) contains Upper Cretaceous to present sediments, reaching a maximum thickness of over 9000 m (Figures 1, 2, and 3). The Korudag Anticlinorium in the SW Thrace Basin was defined in the Korudag region; however, its extensions are not studied as yet. Our studies, based on geological, structural geological and seismic interpretation (Figures 4, 5, 6, and 7), suggest that the anticlinorium is approximately 300 km long and 40 km wide and extends between the Aegean Sea in the west and the area of the Sea of Marmara to the east. The Korudağ Anticlinorium has asymmetrical geometry represented by several folds along the south flank and one fold on the north flank. The anticlinorium was formed by effects of the Neotethyan subduction-accretion complex during late Early Miocene time. In addition, it was deformed to its present day structure by the Oldest Splay of the North Anatolian Fault and the Northern Branch of the North Anatolian Fault.

Presently the Ghawar Anticline located in Saudi Arabia, which is 280 km long and 30 km wide, is considered to be the largest petroleum trap in the world. The Ghawar Anticline is also a unified asymmetrical structure, which is steeper on the western flank and becomes more complex at depth where it comprises several en echelon horst blocks. It also comprises reverse faults and a minor component of right-lateral strike-slip. Therefore, the dimensions of the Korudag Anticlinorium are larger than that of Ghawar Anticline.

According to organic geochemical, oil and gas to source rock correlation and basin modeling studies (e.g., Figure 8), three levels of the basin sediments have oil and gas generation potential, and oil and gas have been generated. The basin also has many potential reservoirs. Although gas and oil are being produced from the Korudağ Anticlinorium and its sub-parallel anticlines, it has not yet been tested and explored comprehensively.

Figure 1. Simplified regional geology of NW Turkey and location map of the Korudag Anticlinorium, oil and gas fields, dry wells and seismic lines. Legend: 1) Istranca Massive, 2) Istanbul Paleozoic sediments, 3) Paleotethys remnants, 4) Upper Cretaceous arc volcanics, 5) Neotethys subduction-accretionary complex, 6) Thrace Basin sediments.
Figure 2. Generalized stratigraphic succession of the southern Thrace Basin.
Figure 3. Geological map of SW Thrace Basin (modified from Saner, 1985; Onal, 1986; Siyako et al., 1989; Sumengen and Terlemez, 1991; MTA, 2002).
Figure 4. Block diagram of SW Korudag Mountain and environs.
Figure 5. Time-migrated seismic sections along lines 1-8.
Figure 6. Cross-section along Isiklardag (Ganos) Mountain (see geological map of SW Thrace Basin for location; modified from Okay et al., 2004).
Figure 7. Satellite image and block diagram of the Korudag Anticlinorium.
Figure 8. Burial history profiles and interpreted oil and gas maturation/expulsion (Huvaz et al., 2005, 2007).

Formation of the Korudag Anticlinorium

The Korudag Anticlinorium formed during the Early Miocene, as folded pre-Lower Miocene sediments are seen to be unconformably overlain by unfolded Middle Miocene sediments. The tectonic stresses controlling the formation of the Korudag Anticlinorium were created by the closure of the Neotethys Ocean during late Early Miocene. However, the present Korudag Anticlinorium was shaped by the Oldest Splay of the NAF (late Middle Miocene) and effects of the NAF-N (not earlier than 200 Ka).

Petroleum Geology of the Korudag Anticlinorium

The source rocks in the south Trace Basin are represented by a) the Karaagac or Hamitabat Formation, b) the Gazikoy or Ceylan Formation, c) the Mezardere Formation.

The reservoir rocks in the south Thrace Basin are represented by a) the Karaagac Formation, b) the Ficitepe Formation, c) the Sogucak Formation, d) the Gazikoy Formation, e) the Kesan Formation, f) the Osmancik Formation, and g) the Danisment Formation.

Conclusions

Production of the North Marmara, Degirmenkoy, Cayirdere, Seymen, Karacali, Yulafli, Tekirdag, Sevindik and Vakiflar fields should be associated with the Korudag Anticlinorium and its sub-parallel anticlines. Therefore, exploration should be tried in extensions of the Anticlinorium, such as offshore Tekirdag, including targeting the Hamitabat Formation with deeper wells. Despite the 19 unsuccessful exploration wells, potential reservoirs of the Sogucak, Ficitepe and Karaagac formations in the Korudag Anticlinorium should be tested in the SW Thrace and NW Aegean Sea.

Presently, the Ghawar Anticline located in Saudi Arabia, which is 280 km long and 30 km wide and harbors 60 billion barrels of oil and much gas, is considered to be the largest unified petroleum trap in the world (Xian, et al., 2003; Afifi, 2005; Durham, 2005; Saner et al., 2005; Dasgupta, 2005). However, Korudag Anticlinorium, at nearly 300 km long and 40 km wide, is larger than the Ghawar Anticline. Although giant structures are not always giant petroleum traps, such as the Destin Dome in the Gulf of Mexico, the Korudag Anticlinorium has not been tested and explored extensively.

Acknowledgement

This work was supported by the Research Fund of Istanbul University (Project number 1773/21122001) and the Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO). We thank I. Erdal Kerey (Beykent University), Sener Usumezsoy and Esref Yalcinkaya (Istanbul University), Salih Saner (Schlumberger Oilfield Services, Saudi Arabia), Gilbert Kelling (Keele University), Aynur Buyukutku (Ankara University), Mete Gurel, Zihni Aksoy, Hasan Emiroglu and Attila Ozatar (Turkish Petroleum Company) and Selami Incedalci (Petroleum Affairs of Turkey) for helpful and constructive comments. We also would like to thank Gretchen M. Gillis, Gary L. Prost, Patrick M. Shannon, Ronald A. Nelson, and Laird B. Thompson for their helpful comments and suggestions that greatly improved our manuscript

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /08255sen/

This page is also worth a look considering the ancient volcanic evidence:

Tectonics and Magmatism in Turkey and the Surrounding Area
By Erdin Bozkurt, Geological Society of London

http://books.google.com/books?id=w7aDDH5GkboC&pg=PA370&lpg=PA37