Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:36 am

Hi Starbiter,

If you look at the Satellite view of your link [which i thought my link went to ?], instead of the Terrain view {which is a graphic construct}; the whole Wallowa complex definitely looks to be Protruding right up out of the Earth and then sloping off 360 degrees around its perimeter.
The whole western side forms a classic caldera shape, making Wallowa appear to be a recent protrusion in a much older, maybe longer term magma release. The eastern side has the gentler dirt covered slope typical of the Rockies and has eroded to drain northward in to that large river system in Washington state.
The whole 2-3 state central area looks like a giant geologic anomalous transition between the dunes of Nevada, the Western Cascades and the Canadian Rockies.
All speculation of course, but like on the Moon or Mars, nothing makes sense unless viewed in the very wide perspective.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.25338,-117.350121&spn=0.136313,0.308647&t=p&z=12
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 7&t=p&z=12
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Kapriel » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:46 pm

Earth lightning hasn't produced granite, and Martian lightning hasn't produced granite on the surface either. Not even the massive bolt that must have carved Valles Marineris did that. If granite was formed through some kind of electrical process, it wasn't via an ordinary kind of bolt from the blue. So what kind of river of fire are we talking about here? How does it work, what are it's properties? Let's quantify that first, before we decide what we think it's capable of doing.
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transformation of rocks and minerals

Unread postby MattEU » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:21 pm

Does anyone have any more informtion or thoughts on turning materials into different types of rocks? Its late at night so i just want to post this stuff but the link in an earlier post to the site http://www.para-az.com/salty-sand.html is to the "sparks" person website right?

Also there was a post a few months ago called Electrically charged rocks? that had a look at isoelectric focusing.

It would seem water is needed to do that type of electric sorting. Currents flowed through the earth today in a number of ways (Telluric Current, Lightning strikes etc) and some of these are long term events. Water is found deep in the Earths rock. If the earth had more electrical current flowing through it back in the day and Anthony Perratt and Dave Talbott are correct about the Squatting Man / Tree of Life / Venus plasma discharge events then would these have meant a stronger flow of energy through the Earth for decades or centuries?

There is also the option of Back EMF or Counter EMF when a current stops flowing - even been a normal type of flow through the Earth and it suddenly stops then there could be a massive Back EMF flow. This would be likely to produce a huge current and perhaps has happened before when it might have done enough to melt different types of rocks into glass like substances eg the Vitrified forts and temples found around the world.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:23 pm

Good evening Kapriel: So we're talking lightning. I haven't invoked lightning in my theory of Granite production. I mentioned Plasmoids and the Aurora. I can't take credit for these two options. I'm not smart enough. When my quest began i noticed damage to rocks in canyons. Actually, Michael Armstrong requested that i photograph the bubbles in the rocks of Capitol Reef National Park. I had no idea what he was talking about, and wasn't confident in finding the bubbles. To my surprise i found them. There seemed to be burning associated with the bubbles. And the process seemed directional. Showed the images to Dave Talbott and Armstrong and went back to the desert looking for more. Made a wrong turn in Utah and stumbled on a canyon with petroglyphs and rocks close to the pass with damage. The damage to the rocks was on the surfaces facing down hill. The wind and water were from the opposite direction. I stood there thinking a Seething River of Plasma had come up the canyon. I got a tingle. Reported back to Portland, and went right back out to the desert. There was directional damage in many canyons. It became predictable. While in Portland i had a chance to ask Wal what could cause horizontal damage in deserts. He suggested Plasmoids/Ball Lightning. I re-read his Extreme Ball Lightning article. The stuff seems to kill people and cause damage and burning. The cause could be the result of lightning striking heavy elements like uranium. That caused me to consider a lightning bolt between Earth and Venus, or Earth and Mars striking a mountain of Uranium that might be available in the desert. This might produce Super Massive Extreme Ball Lightning. Shamelessy borrowed from our Black Hole friends. That was an option. Then i got to visit CJ. We did some experiments zaping Sandstone at the Lab. When i told him about The Seething River he suggested the Aurora. He mentioned the Aurora over Brownsville TX. It can grow large. Imagine if Venus or Mars are in the neighborhood. It could grow to cover the planet and even descend to the surface. This vision fits what i see the best. Being filamentary the the damage would not be even.

This is my long winded explanation for the proposed agent converting ore into Granite. The Plasma in the Crucible might duplicate the Plasmoid or the Aurora. I will ask CJ and Wal in the future.

Now, back to lightning. I think i'll save that for a future rant. It's a big player in these events.

Smart enough to ask really smart people for answers, michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:30 pm

* The first image below is a mainstream schematic cross-section of the northwest, I think. Shock Dynamics at http://newgeology.us suggests something similar, except that, instead of taking millions of years for North America to move westward a few thousand miles, it would have taken a day or two after a powerful electrical impact near Madagascar, with the continents breaking up and then sliding from the impact on the plasma Moho layer. The so-called subduction zone is actually simply where the front of the continent pushed against the Pacific floor. This diagram seems to explain basalt flooding via magmatic intrusion from below, like the Deccan traps of India, similar to the way Velikovsky suggested. Remember, volcanoes may be started by megalightning. If basalt covered much of the area, since it contains iron, it's more electrically conductive than most rock, so it would have attracted lightning more. Maybe megalightning removed a lot of it, leaving only some in a few places.
Image
* A large part of Nebraska is covered with dunes, apparently still sandy, but not mobile. See here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 61&t=p&z=8
* And here's a geologic cross-section of a small area.
Image
* I suppose the dunes formed just as in the Sahara. I wonder if the area was a desert at one time. And I wonder what has kept the sand from being blown by wind. How do the Nebraska dunes compare to the Sahara dunes here?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 61&t=p&z=8
* The Sahara used to be a sea bottom and the midwest was also an inland sea. But was the sand formed by wave action on rocky shores, which would take forever, or was it mostly formed by EDM?
* Here are images of petrified sand dunes:
http://images.google.com/images?as_q=&g ... es&as_st=y
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby allynh » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:02 pm

Ah, part of what everybody has to remember, is that any shaping, sculpting, transmutation, transforming, would have occurred while we were still in orbit/association with Saturn.

No process since the Saturn Event has the energy to do the damage that happened before then.

Think of what has been mentioned a few times in the various Thunderblogs. All of the stars in the Milky Way could easily fit within our heliopause. That is not a lot of volume yet all of the stars would fit.

When a galaxy spits out a quasar it is a single mass under massive electrical charge. It starts fissioning, spitting out stars, forming the spiral galaxy, all to reduce that horrendous energy load. Each star fissions, spitting out companion stars, then gas giants, and rocky planets like ours. All this to even out the energy load coming from the galactic currents.

Look at the classic plasma ball.
192px-Plasma-lamp_2.jpg
192px-Plasma-lamp_2.jpg (18.07 KiB) Viewed 9076 times

Put your finger on the glass and look at all that energy suddenly hitting that point. Only when you take your finger away, does the energy flow spread out evenly.

(Save this gif to your desktop and then open it in your browser to see the finger touching the glass. Look at the energy strike, and think of the damage.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plasmalamp.gif

As long as we were still connected with Saturn, we were getting hit with all that concentrated energy, on a regular basis. That was equal to putting your finger on the glass ball. Once the Saturn system destabilized, and the planets spread out into their current orbits, they spread that energy flow across the entire system.

When I watch NOVA or the Discovery episodes about prehistoric Earth, it is always placid jungle scenes interrupted on occasion by meteor impacts. In reality there would have been vast plasma storms, tornados hoovering material and dumping it in vast heaps. The plasma balls that starbiter mentioned--like during the Chicago Fire, etc...--would have been common and vastly more energetic. We have never seen lightning storms, hurricanes, tornados, on the power and scale pumped up by that kind of energy load.

In some of the earlier threads discussing transmutation we never talked about the energetic environment that the Earth was in while all of the veins of ore were being transmuted, the dinosaurs and trees were being flash fossilized, etc..., but that was the source of all those changes.

From the Growing Earth viewpoint, use Google Maps to look at the various terrains that cover this planet, and it is evidence of massive scaring by vast energetic processes, all over a long period of time. But think of the Earth as millions of years old, not billions, and the answer becomes clearer.

That we grew from a planet smaller than the Moon to our current size, all the while life blossomed, spread over a surface that was under constant stretching, buckling, carving, energetic transport of material, vast tidal waves, etc...

Now look at the Pleiades.
300px-Pleiades_large.jpg
300px-Pleiades_large.jpg (12.29 KiB) Viewed 9076 times

There are over a thousand stars in close proximity. It is just eight light years across. Those stars are under massive electrical stress, and are fissioning, spitting out stars like crazy to spread out that load. They have stars bumping against each other's heliopause. Once they spread out the energy load they will settle down to our levels and be quiet.

Our region of space has the stars spread out, with the nearest system four light years away. The Saturn Event was probably the last of the spreading out of that energy load.

Now go back to the start of this thread, and when you are thinking of energy sources, think prehistory, not current, quiet levels. Think of that finger running along the glass, being hit by a bolt of plasma.

"The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on."

I know, I know, I couldn't resist.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby ancientd » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:08 am

ah starbiter you have just hit on a topic that not only frustrates but intrigues me . Your observations have captured things that i have missed although I have noted in Victoria ,Austalia this transformation from rocky mountain crater type formations to crater shaped sand lunettses ( by which I mean round or semi round formations . I would like your thoughts on the formation of a particular type. I am currently malikn a film on a Lake Mungo and Lake Victoria in Australia along the Murray river system . Wal thornhill has been involved in the previous two and has promised to be involved in this one together with Marinus Anthony van der Sluijs. To cut to the chase I am intrigued by the Lunettes along the Darling and Murray river systems ( see Google MILDURA Australia ) They resemble the U Tube Carolina Bays but in this case they are not so numerous but similarly are roudish with one side higher than the other. Wal believes as I that they are an EU phenomena , but envisiging how is difficult I do note river tendrils throught he Carolina bays which peraps may of been created by Lichenberg currents . In The case of the Australian example the river systems subtending them may of originally been electrically created gullies flowing across what are dead flat clay,salt,sand pans.??????.( australian aboriginalmythology supports this ) They ,like the Carolina model are built in distinct layers. However my thoughts are that the layers are not sedimentary by wind or Birkeland dust creation but that this is more similar to iso electric focusing or even centrifuge layering In this case the layers seperate out at the one time either due to charge concentration per depth, electrical qualities of the target or some other charge dependent phenomena. In rock the endlesstight packing of thin and think layers argues ( t0 me at least ) agaonst wind or even erratic layering by chaotic berkeland currents. Possibly we all fail to take into account the incredible permutations that electricity offers from anode to cathodereversals, to differing voltage,resistance wavelengths etc. As Wal mpoints out tornadoes and lightning are similar except the firts is a slow electrical vortex. Anyway I am rambling a bit but I am interseted on your thoughts with that practical experience you have ,all the best Peter mungo Jupp
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Kapriel » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:46 am

Starbiter-
I've considered that possibility, but run into some walls. Other rocks aren't so hard to explain electrically. Granite is...like this huge exception. The grains in granite shouldn't grow the way they do under normal circumstances. Some geologists have theorized that granite isn't igneous at all, but metamorphic. But metamorphic rocks traditionally would show an edge that was closest to the applied pressure, and an edge that was furthest away.

I'm intrigued by the idea of a low voltage current being applied to a mineral solution plus sand, and given some time to develop. Electricity can speed crystallization, we know that. No telling how long it would take.

I'm also intrigued by the idea of a secondary effect having formed granite, perhaps it was the magnetic field created by surface currents, who knows. I don't know much about fields beneath the ground. Earthquakes seem to be the result of charge build up within the ground. I think it's all related. Either way, if we're going to say there were raging plasmas sweeping the surface of the ground, we might be able to infer a secondary effect beneath it.

This doesn't do anything for the granitic slip-faces you think you're seeing. That would be a surface-effect. I don't know what to say about that. Are these thin veneers of rock superimposed over dunes?

By the way, when I click on your map links, the general, unzoomed map pops up. I don't always know where to zoom to after that. I wonder if you could save the zoomed picture from the map, and just insert that into your posts?
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Kapriel » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:53 am

Ancientd-
Ok, found some lunette pictures-- pretty neat! So these are petrified dunes? They are full of skeletons and tree-branches. Where are your previous videos posted?
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:41 pm

I just finished responding to most of the questions and it disappeared. So this will be a repeat. Bummer

Lloyd: If the Sun stood still and the Earth stopped rotating there would be pressure applied to the crust, i think. This could cause rapid subduction, either East to West, or West to East. This subduction model reminds me of obtaining new data from improved sensors in different wavelengths that disprove Black Holes. Then the people with the flawed models propose new models. Who better than the people with so much experience. This is not to imply rapid subduction is not possible. Maybe your chart is spot on. No offense meant with the Black Hole comment. I just think it's a problen if you need to modify a failed model.
On the other hand, i'm still comfortable with the Dr. Velikovsky's explanation for raising areas of the planet. There are cities in Peru that don't make sense at their present altitude. The Himalayas and Colorado Plateau are other examples of apparent hydraulic lifting en mass. If the Earth stops rotating the centrifugal force being applied to the equator would cease. This might cause the 26.5 mile bulge to relax. That would cause the waters to move poleward. The land mass might also contract. Of course in this case there would be an equal and opposite reaction somewhere. Maybe in places predisposed to these forces. Or not. It seems like Denver was much lower once. I thought an uplift would be required for the Western US, but sever sloshing might be adequate. I think we will never know. I don't think this process would raise individual mountains though. They look like dunes.

Concerning Basalt and Dr. V, i don't think he considered an electrical option for external basalt production. When he spoke of Rivers of Fire he thought of petroleum, not Plasma/Aurora. I think our EU options are broader than his, even though he was a pioneer and suffered for his EU approach.
I agree with you about Interplanetary Lightning causing volcanoes, possibly. A BLM geologist in Carson City, NV told me volcanoes are due to a weakening of the crust. The Thunderbolt as the cause idea struck me. I think the Thunderbolts might have been attracted to the highest point available, the tops of the mountain/dunes. Mt. Hood seems a good example.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 4&t=p&z=11
It sits atop what would have been a high point.
There are Cinder Cones where Thunderbolts removed large amounts of material creating cinders surrounding the formation, but didn't weaken the crust. No volcano, and really hard to explain by geologists.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 1&t=p&z=15

Concerning dunes. Any place that was not submerged would dune. As the flood receded, areas that had been submerged would begin to accumulate wind blown particles. If an area is completely flat it means it was submerged until after dust and sand were available. If the sand got zapped you find rock. If not, particulate dune. They don't seen to move much according to Xsteve Smith. There are exception in Africa of course where deserts are expanding. I think it's that simple. This requires everything East of Denver to be submerged for the majority of the process. But the area is not flat. I've seen 3d maps of Colorado in hostels. I stared at them for hours. You can see the drainage and dunes forming around it. It's cool. In order for the water to not drain quickly, it would be easier if Denver was lower. Maybe the flooding in the mountains was great enough to prolong the flood until most of the sand had dissipated. Not sure. Just a reminder, my model of duning does not require dry desert. It was wet.

I was using the term EDM or machining to describe the removal of material from planets. I was informed by CJ, Mel, and Michael Armstrong this was not accurate. EDM is a complicated industrial process with many requirements to achieve the results. Removal of material from planets would not meet the definition. Dielectric Fluid is one factor. I was advised to refer to the process as Electrical Excavation to be more literal. I'll defer to CJ whenever possible. He's really smart, and nice. There might be varying opinions on this. It's an issue that could be used against us by critics.

I think this covers most of your points.

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:48 pm

S,

I just finished responding to most of the questions and it disappeared. So this will be a repeat. Bummer


An absolutely annoying bummer.
I now try to peck a post out in word or adobe doc, if it's worth a spell check;
or at least 'select all' and 'copy' , before hitting Submit.
my sincere condolences...

s
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:50 pm

Hello Kapriel: I think it's too soon to comment on Granite formation. If i hear from CO Mike or do the experiments in the Spring i'll be able to answer your questions in a semi-intelligent manner. Waiting is.

Concerning the depth of the Granite, when i spoke with the Geology Dude in Carson City, NV. he mentioned the Sierra Mountains are Granite [there is a specific name for this Granite] from the top to the base. He also said that underlying the Granite Structure is sediment. I haven't confirmed this.


When i look at my map links i see what i wanted to show. What do you see? The map of the US?


michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby webolife » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:48 pm

Starbiter Mike,
I need to write a lengthier reply when I have more time, but here's some questions.
Do you consider water-current-formed ripples and wind-blown dunes a part of the same "duning" process you are taling about? I don't think you are not understanding the Columbian basalt plateau, and I'll try to explain more when I have time. Folding in mountains would only take eons if the strata are completely solidified, cemented, compacted, bonafied rock. What if the continental movements were happening as or geologically shortly after the sediments were being laid?
The Sierras are a complex of granites interspersed with sedimentary/metamorphic layers.
His does not prove or disprove any particular hypothesis, other than that these granites are not primordial.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:53 pm

A quick note on Interplanetary Thunderbolts. They seem to cause craters. Meteor Crater comes to mind. Also Calderas.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 9&t=p&z=10
The Mammoth Mountain area is an example.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 7&t=p&z=12
Also Crater Lake. these thunderbolts may, or may not cause a volcano. But the results seem round.
The cinder cone i mentioned to Lloyd also applies.
These are examples of material being removed. If the polarity of the thunderbolt is reversed the arc might be attractive. If the air is full of dust and sand it might be pulled in to a round formation in the blink of an eye, or longer. It might still resemble a slip face in places because of the nature of sand in the presence of wind.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 7&t=p&z=12
Sutter Butte comes to mind. It doesn't fit the description of a butte at all. It's not flat on the top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte
Also Shiprock NM.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 2&t=p&z=14
The central area might have been more round before Electrical Excavation removed large amounts.


If the central area formed while the area surrounding it was underwater it might explain the three formations surrounding the center. If there was dust, sand, and wind, the central area would interrupt the wind causing deposition downwind from the center. This would cause the submerged area to fill in leaving a fairly straight formation. If the wind direction changed three times the three emanating structures would be the result. Then something really zapped it. Because the whole area was submerged the surrounding area is quite flat. Definitely maybe. It seems hard to explain otherwise. Does a thunderbolt attracting sand seem plausible to any of you EE types?

I've been typing all day so if this is unintelligible please let me know. I'm toast. I've typed all of today's crap twice.

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby ancientd » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:32 pm

Starbiter and K someone mentioned use spellcheck and as I look at my previuous submission they are dead right. Anyway In answer to your question the two previous films have an introductory segment on the website www.ancientdestructions.com.au or also on u tube . Once they are converted to NTSC they should be for sale on the thunderbolts website. However if you email me your adresses at p.jupp@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au I will send you both copies. In the interim you guys should look at the chevrons on mega tsunami melbourne 1500AD as these are claimed to be due to possibly huge mega tsunamis obviously encompassing some EU effect . They are along the coast of Australia and much of the rest of the world including Madagascar. Prof Ted Bryant from Wollongong university earthsciences claims these sand dunes were formed by water. However underneath they are solid concretised sand and in other cases limestone. But always on coast lines ???? Any thoughts


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