Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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South of Massanutten peak

Unread postby bdw000 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:43 pm

Not too long ago there was a TPOD about Massanutten Mountain.

About 40 miles south of the southern tip of the long mountain there are what appears to my untrained eye to be a feature that just does not look "normal": two straight, parallel scratches that cut through two small ridges.

I would be interested what anyone thinks about these scratches: are they just "normal" geological features, or do they look out of place to you too?

To find these scratches go to google maps, choose "terrain" and search for zip code "22949." Zoom to the 5 mile/10 kilometer scale and the two scratches will be a little to the right of the green arrow that marks the zip code location. If you zoom in any more than 5m/10km you will have to move to the right and down a little bit to see the features.
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Re: South of Massanutten peak

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:39 pm

No chance on a link to the map, eh? Well, I'll dig one up, don't ye' worry!

(Terrain)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ll= ... 61798&z=14

(Satellite)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=h&ll= ... 61798&z=14

Looks like there's roads going through, but the terms on the terrain map are Canada Gap and Gleason's Gap respectively. So, I'd guess they're natural?

Cheers,
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MGMIRKIN please take another look

Unread postby bdw000 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:17 pm

Thanks Michael.

Sorry, I could not create a link the other day (no idea why not).

You were very close (in spite of my silly directions), but a little too far south.

In the very center of this map you should see two LONG scratches (north to south) close to and parallel to each other:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ie=UTF8&ll=37.790252,-78.802185&spn=0.385263,0.723724&z=10

Here is a "closer" look (again, the very center of the map is where the features are):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ie=UTF8&ll=37.790252,-78.800125&spn=0.192632,0.361862&z=11

An even closer look: the scratches are immediately to the right of the words "sugarloaf mountain":

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ie=UTF8&ll=37.792422,-78.800812&spn=0.096313,0.180931&z=12

This just really jumps out at me: looks like someone took a stick and made two parallel scratches in the dirt.

I think the better view is "higher up."

Thanks again.
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South of Massanutten peak WITH LINKS

Unread postby bdw000 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:07 pm

I am reposting this with links to the maps.

Not too long ago there was a TPOD about Massanutten Mountain.

About 40 miles south of the southern tip of the long mountain there are what appears to my untrained eye to be a feature that just does not look "normal": two straight, parallel (north to south) scratches that cut through two small ridges.

I would be interested what anyone thinks about these scratches: are they just "normal" geological features, or do they look out of place to you too?

In the very center of these maps you should see two LONG scratches (north to south, 5 to 8 km long) close to and parallel to each other:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ie= ... 23724&z=10

Here is a "closer" look (again, the very center of the map is where the features are):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ie= ... 61862&z=11

An even closer look: the scratches are immediately to the right of the words "sugarloaf mountain":

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&t=p&ie= ... 80931&z=12

This just really jumps out at me: looks like someone took a stick and made two parallel scratches in the dirt.

I think the better view is "higher up."
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Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby davesmith_au » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:39 am

Giday all, I've had a request for a new forum covering this topic, however to keep the forum frontage lean at this stage I think a thread dedicated to the topic here in the Planetary Science forum is the most appropriate way to address this at present.

Lets keep this thread as 'clean' as possible, with sensible discussion about the possible electrical scarring on this planet, it sould be a valuable topic if approached correctly. That is to say, scientific speculation will be more productive than wild speculation.

I hear a member has some interesting images of possible electrical scars in Australia, and what better place to start. :mrgreen:

So bring it on and let's get the discussion rolling.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:00 pm

Well, we could always start small, and I can resurrect a small piece of "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0" history. IE, known lightning scars... All the thumbnails link to larger versions in my science pics stash(es). Often with additional expository or suggestive text or links back to original sources where possible (I've tried to list as many as I could recall or re-find).

First off, let's take a look at Lichtenberg figures.

(Historical documents)
http://scienceservice.si.edu/pages/044138.htm

("Positive" and "Negative" figures)
http://scienceservice.si.edu/pages/044138e.htm

(Example of a sparse, filamentary discharge in acrylic [a dielectric insulator])
Image

(Example of a more dense / "feathery" discharge)
Image

Next, let's take a look at some real-world examples of electrical damage:

(Multi-spot arc traces to stainless steel; note similarity across scales.)
Image

The above appears related to or a subset of the process known as "diffusion limited aggregation." Possibly part of the process of dielectric breakdown is dependent on or related to DLA?

(Compare this photo of golf course lightning to the sparse filamentary discharge captured in acrylic above. A distinct replication of one of the major characteristic "Lichtenberg figure" morphologies.)
Image

(Another example of golf course lightning. This one is a bit denser and gets somewhat featherier at the tips.)
Image

(An extremely impressive, extremely big, extremely feathery and dense lightning strike to another golf course.)
Image

(Nowhere near as well-defined as the others, this lightning strike was a bit of a messy one. But tore up the turf pretty well.)
Image

So far we've seen a few relatively "stationary" strikes, with a center and radiating filaments. (Likely from charge locked up in the ground? then catastrophically released as in the production of Lichtenberg acrylic pieces.)

However, lightning can wander too, leaving what are often called "rilles" on moons. But around here tend to be a bit smaller and look a bit like churned up troughs:

(Trench cut by lightning; photographed circa 1950)
Image

(Trench cut by lightning, damaged the concrete curb too; reported circa 2002)
Image

(A lightning strike fused this double [fulgurite] trackway in the ground.)
[url]Image[/url]

Fulgurites are the physical evidence sometimes left by lightning strikes when they pass through the ground. They generally consist of fused materials from the soil. Especially sandy soils. Fulgurites are generally quite brittle and glassy. Though in the case of longer lasting electrical energizing of the soil or surrounding materials (usually from a live downed power line resting on soils for extended periods of time), more durable products can be formed. Some of these have been termed "clinkers."

Interestingly, such a feature strongly resembles certain fossils! Such as sea shells trapped in a stony matrix, but otherwise mostly unmolested, etc...

(Lightning strikes can also apparently produce spherules not unlike those produced by CJ Ransom in the lab.)
Image

Getting back to lightning damage, I might as well point to a few instances of damage to concrete!

(Either lightning or a downed power pole in Minneapolis, MN.)
Image

(A closer look.)
Image

(Damage to either a sidewalk or patio in Pico Rivera, CA)
Image

(A closer shot; notice the darkening around the periphery. Wouldn't be surprised if some electrical/chemical process was going on to change the materials or otherwise scorch the area.)
Image

Well, that's all been something of a walk down memory lane. The last bit isn't for the squeamish. Known as "lightning flowers," or more clinically as "electrical burns," the following images show what happens when people get hit by lightning or by industrial strength discharges.

(An example of a lightning strike to the shoulder. Probably lucky to be alive...? Seeing as it appears to have been the left shoulder! Ouch!)
Image

(Something of a more extensive lightning strike / burn.)
Image

(Industrial electrical burn; whether it's "industrial" electricity or "natural" electricity, the results come out about the same.)
Image

Hope this trip down memory lane has been useful for some folks...

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby tesla » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:14 am

Crater.jpg
Hi All,
There is a plateau about 100 klms from Sydney Australia that has very unusual geological features. This is a picture of one. A circular crater cut into the plateau with a cratered cone in the center. A lot of people have walked to the cone as it is in local maps. But only with the new version of Google Earth has the outer crater been seen. There is a a larger crater as well as smaller ones. There are canyons running in different directions.
I would value the input from readers on this. The co-ordinates of the area are on the picture.
Thanks!
Garry Maxfield
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby Drethon » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:49 am

This is a very interesting book on making static electricity generators http://www.powells.com/biblio?PID=29205&cgi=product&isbn=0071373233.

One part of it describes how to make small "electric tornadoes" that look very similar to the filaments some have pointed out in sunspots and they create grooves in pottery that are very similar to the grooves you show in the pictures (the book even has one of the pictures).
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby redeye » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:44 am

One part of it describes how to make small "electric tornadoes" that look very similar to the filaments some have pointed out in sunspots


This sounds a lot like the small tornadoes that Dahlenaz reproduced in his CRT experiments. I'm sure there is a video on his website.

http://www.cybertrails.com/~zrwoaz/twister_1_7.35sh80hv.jpg

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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:01 pm

Drethon wrote:This is a very interesting book on making static electricity generators http://www.powells.com/biblio?PID=29205&cgi=product&isbn=0071373233.

One part of it describes how to make small "electric tornadoes" that look very similar to the filaments some have pointed out in sunspots and they create grooves in pottery that are very similar to the grooves you show in the pictures (the book even has one of the pictures).


Well, that just sounds like EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining). A bit more crude than industrial applications, granted... Basically just an arc machining material away from a surface. Much like the lightning trenches I referenced earlier in the pictures above.

I seem to recall it was either the TPODs or Holoscience that mentioned electrical tornadoes or something done with an electric wire / arc and a red earthen flower pot. Vaguely recall that a light application of moisture has interesting effects. Can't recall exactly what article or TPOD it was in tho'.

Likewise, Peter Thompson made a "tornado in a petri dish" out of a bunch of salt and an electric spark gap...

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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby Osmosis » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:02 am

Speaking of EDM, if the Grand Canyon was carved by electricity, the material lofted into the sky went somewhere. There is evidence of burials of rinocerus and other animals in Nebraska by a supposed "super volcano". Could a better culprit be the fallout from the Grand Canyon? :?: :?: :?:
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby smartart » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:04 am

Has anyone re-assessed the "Nazca lines" for a lighning factor? Some while back (short or long - I'm 70) I thought I saw a similarity between certain rock art - said to be electric sky art originally - and the "spider" at Nazca. It has just occurred to me that when the sky was "active", Nazca being a high plane, lightning might have "done a demo" of some sort, to be mimicked or embellished by humans leading to the lines and shapes.
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby bboyer » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:22 am

smartart wrote:Has anyone re-assessed the "Nazca lines" for a lighning factor? Some while back (short or long - I'm 70) I thought I saw a similarity between certain rock art - said to be electric sky art originally - and the "spider" at Nazca. It has just occurred to me that when the sky was "active", Nazca being a high plane, lightning might have "done a demo" of some sort, to be mimicked or embellished by humans leading to the lines and shapes.


Sounds reasonable to me. You might also be interested in this thread here, in this same forum, that has some mention of Nazca that would probably benefit from more of an electrical discussion than the mythological aspects at this point in time, which I believe is where it was heading (i.e. electrical aspect) just before we lost the old forum: Recovered: Tiahuanacu
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Re: Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

Unread postby webolife » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:38 am

Back to Osmosis's question... I find it difficult to imagine all of the Grand Canyon carved out by EDM, or that any rhinoceri etc. in Nebraska could be buried by sedimentary material somehow mistaken as volcanic. But, clearly from space the Grand Canyon has the general form of a lichtenberg structure. How about this as an alternative proposition:
What if an initial catastrophic thunderbolt strike simply "scratched the surface" predisposing the virtually flat plateau to the Colorado flood and subsequent river erosion along the previously carved EDM trackways? Accompanying this supposition might be an understanding that the sediments forming the canyon were in an early or pre-stage of cementation... this scenario would presuppose the ability of EDM to carve a ditch without "welding" its banks at the same time... how does this fit what the rest of you planetary folks think about Planetary EDM?
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