Electric Comets

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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solrey
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by solrey » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:26 pm

Mike's probably right. The orbiter/lander package is going to be pacing the comet in order for the lander to plunk down nice and slow so there shouldn't be much in the way of charge differential. Like Mike said, the Deep Impact mission was designed to hit hard and make a relatively big hole. Rosetta's a ESA mission, btw.

Unlike the copper projectile of Deep Impact,
The (Philae) lander structure consists of a baseplate, an instrument platform, and a polygonal sandwich construction, all made of carbon fibre. Some of the instruments and subsystems are beneath a hood that is covered with solar cells.

An antenna transmits data from the surface to Earth via the orbiter. The lander carries nine experiments, with a total mass of about 21 kilograms. It also carries a drilling system to take samples of subsurface material.
I think they're landing before the comet gets real active. The lander is mostly non-conductive carbon fibre so the electronics should be OK...at least until the comet begins to discharge, increasing the vulnerability of electrical systems. I wouldn't expect any discharge activity when the harpoon anchor hits the surface either.

My concern is that, after activity picks up, if we're fortunate enough for a local discharge to occur around the landing zone, the instruments might get fried preventing us from getting any data on the event. Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if they have ongoing issues with the electronics and/or communications between lander and orbiter as the comet gets closer to the sun.

The European Space Agency, Rosetta mission homepage

Rosetta factsheet (pdf)


Thanks for the nod Mike, but I stand humbly in the shadows of those giants.

cheers
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

fosborn
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by fosborn » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:43 pm

I found this article discussing lightning research concerning the Apollo 12 lightning strikes. It seems to apply;

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/3 ... htning.php

( I got this link from a post; http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 92f7640d0d)
( thanks,Lloyd)

"Is the whole image of Ben Franklin and the kite a myth? Did he do lightning research?

He showed that there was electricity in thunderstorms. He flew the kite and sparks came off the bottom. He didn't want the kite to be struck by lightning. In fact, if you put something up slowly into the atmosphere, it generally doesn't trigger lightning. You have to get it up there in a hurry. "

(I didn't much care for their conclusions of how lightning was caused by the Apollo 12 transition through the atmosphere though)

mharratsc
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by mharratsc » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:32 pm

Well, they're almost right. Craft cooking through the atmosphere create a plasma trail much akin to those rockets trailing a wire behind them trying to induce lightning.

Once those craft travel between distinct double-layers of charge within our atmosphere- BAM. One of the U.S.'s shuttles was taken out like that, on re-entry if you'll recall. :(
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

fosborn
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by fosborn » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:28 pm

Once those craft travel between distinct double-layers of charge within our atmosphere- BAM. One of the U.S.'s shuttles was taken out like that, on re-entry if you'll recall. :(
A terrible lesson. And ironic all the more, if they refuse to understand it.
Last edited by davesmith_au on Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote formatting - DS.

Nereid
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by Nereid » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:25 am

Does anyone know if Wal Thornhill (or anyone else) intends to publish EU predictions, as he did for Deep Impact, of what data Rosetta's instruments will return, once it reaches and begins to study Comet 67 P/Churyumov- Gerasimenko?

David Talbott
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by David Talbott » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Nereid wrote:Does anyone know if Wal Thornhill (or anyone else) intends to publish EU predictions, as he did for Deep Impact, of what data Rosetta's instruments will return, once it reaches and begins to study Comet 67 P/Churyumov- Gerasimenko?
I'm sure he will in due course. And personally I'd like to see lots of advanced analyses from both the mainstream and the EU perspectives, in order to highlight the contrasts. All involved in such an exchange should honestly acknowledge that Wal's key predictions were remarkably accurate. Considering that his predictions challenged mainstream expectations, that fact alone should encourage a thoughtful exchange.

Nereid
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by Nereid » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:59 am

David Talbott wrote:
Nereid wrote:Does anyone know if Wal Thornhill (or anyone else) intends to publish EU predictions, as he did for Deep Impact, of what data Rosetta's instruments will return, once it reaches and begins to study Comet 67 P/Churyumov- Gerasimenko?
I'm sure he will in due course. And personally I'd like to see lots of advanced analyses from both the mainstream and the EU perspectives, in order to highlight the contrasts.
Thanks.

Did he (or anyone else) publish predictions for EPOXI's encounter with Hartley 2 (I did a search for any, but it came up blank; maybe I was looking in the wrong place, or using the wrong terms)?

mharratsc
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by mharratsc » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:37 pm

Hey Nereid- would you happen to know of a good site where we can look at some summarized 'mainstream' predictions for these missions also, so we can do some comparisons? That would be cool to see :)
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

fosborn
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by fosborn » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:57 pm

<<Nereid : Did he (or anyone else) publish predictions for EPOXI's encounter with Hartley 2 (I did a search for any, but it came up blank; maybe I was looking in the wrong place, or using the wrong terms)?>>

Is this it?
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=nq9zna2m

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Jarvamundo
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by Jarvamundo » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:49 pm

mharratsc wrote:Hey Nereid- would you happen to know of a good site where we can look at some summarized 'mainstream' predictions for these missions also, so we can do some comparisons? That would be cool to see :)
+ 1

Nereid
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Re: ESA Rosetta Stone 2014

Unread post by Nereid » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:37 am

mharratsc wrote:Hey Nereid- would you happen to know of a good site where we can look at some summarized 'mainstream' predictions for these missions also, so we can do some comparisons? That would be cool to see :)
I don't know of any such site ... but then I don't follow this subject very closely.

Most likely you'll find what you're interested in in conference presentations, workshop proceedings, and the like; however, they are likely to be quite technical.

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genogeno1
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Shoemaker Levy 9 Comet Flash Prior to Impact

Unread post by genogeno1 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 pm

I was reviewing the photos from the Shoemaker Levy 9 comet impact with Jupiter back on July 16, 1994 and came across this peculiar time sequence photo from impact A (the first comet fragment impact). It appears to show the first comet fragment just prior to entering the atmosphere at between 1000 and 1500 km above the surface. What is funny is that the Hubble website, in their canned answer to this enigma states something to the effect that it might be due to shadows or reflections off the atmosphere. That is all they say about it. I can go back and find the actual link if necessary, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reinventing the wheel. It looks to me like a flash or discharge of some sort well outside the atmosphere of Jupiter very similar to the one observed on the latest comet mission and predicted by Walt Thornhill. Has anyone else noticed this?
hs-1994-30-a-web_printRESIZE.jpg

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tayga
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Re: Shoemaker Levy 9 Comet Flash Prior to Impact

Unread post by tayga » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:31 pm

Wal's prediction for Deep Impact included the flash:
Tempel 1 has a low-eccentricity orbit. Therefore its charge imbalance with respect to its environment at perihelion is low. (It is a 'low-voltage' comet.) Electrical interactions with Deep Impact may be slight, but they should be measurable if NASA will look for them. They would likely be similar to those of Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 prior to striking Jupiter's atmosphere: The most obvious would be a flash (lightning-like discharge) shortly before impact.
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=hcabb8zj

It has been discussed by a number of people here but kudos for spotting it for yourself :D
tayga


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn

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genogeno1
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Re: Shoemaker Levy 9 Comet Flash Prior to Impact

Unread post by genogeno1 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:35 pm

thanks! The more I look, the more I "find". Seems like it has already been seen, but it is nice to know that I'm not seeing things.

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StevenJay
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Re: Shoemaker Levy 9 Comet Flash Prior to Impact

Unread post by StevenJay » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:34 am

genogeno1 wrote:it is nice to know that I'm not seeing things.
Oh, but that's just it; you are seeing things not seen before due to your expanded awareness! :D
It's all about perception.

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