Electric discharges to dusty CRT match planetary features

[dahlenaz]

A video reply has been posted to one of my youtube pieces
and it may interest everyone here. The reply points out radial
streaks, something i see in most the CRT results. Spirals are also
mentioned in this slideshow response. d...z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVK_Qc2PE5o

[dahlenaz]

One of the biggest challenges in presenting results from recent experiments as well as older is getting good 3D images through the use of a single-eyed camera. The recent image have more 3D detail available so the loss is more noticable.
I've mentioned this before while pointing out the great images being captured by the European Space Agency's Stereo orbital camera over Mars. The detail they've shown points out the value of having two eyes. Several of the craters they've imaged show the radial streaks that were described in the plasma strike video.
Here is one example:



If anyone has some tips on how to get better 3D detail of these tiny features, while using a single-eyed camera, we might all benifit from that information. I've shot so many images of these splash-craters but so few show the detail that i see with my eyes. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! d...z

[StefanR]

If you want to picture your experiments up-close, you might have to dive into macrophotography. It depends mostly on the photographing equipment you use.

[dahlenaz]

If you want to picture your experiments up-close, you might have to dive into macrophotography. It depends mostly on the photographing equipment you use.

Thanks as always for you helpful input,
And here i thought i might be able to produce stereo images like in the old days with two images at the end of a stick.
Had a notion that this could be accomplished with software or photo editing but couldn't find any mention of that capability. But the year is young and "i want stereo images" to convince people of the details that might only be produced through electrical discharge. Thanks again! d...z

http://www.dahlendesigns.com
Mouse Toboggan

[StefanR]

Had a notion that this could be accomplished with software or photo editing but couldn't find any mention of that capability. But the year is young and "i want stereo images" to convince people of the details that might only be produced through electrical discharge.

I sure do hope the mentioning of macrophotography will be sufficient, but from what I got from it , it shouldn't be that hard with a normal digital camera. As for the making of 3D pictures that is possible too, only again it depends on what type of 3D your are after. But maybe these links will get you further and you will be able to enlighten us with some stunning images

Make 3-D photos
http://features.engadget.com/2004/08/24 ... -d-photos/

How to Make 3D Photos
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-3D-Photos

Stereoscopic
http://www.instructables.com/id/Stereoscopic-AMD-CPU/

Making 3D Digital Photos
http://flyingsamphoto.com/digital-photo ... -008.shtml

Software for making 3D pictures
http://www.3djournal.com/001/artic3.php

[dahlenaz]

Here is an article and slide show that everyone needs to see. The featured image is from the slide show with the article.
One image show land features much like those seen in miniature in one of Wal Thornhills articles at thunderbolts.info. It was also used in my 2008 presentation, upper right section of poster. His picture is of a micro crater through the EDM process.

Another image in the slide show is of a disturbance of dust, they claim is a dust storm. One big question comes to mind, why only in that one area? Why isn't there dust being stirred up around more of the features in the area? I could understand seeing dust stirred in the downwind side of those cliffs but there should be similar disturbances elsewhere. I wish i knew which way the orbiter was traveling. Where are related photos to this one? There must be others from before and after the disturbance. How fast is that orbiter going and in what direction? Sorry, that is more than one question.
This all is just too captivating! d...z

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/scien ... ef=science

[dahlenaz]

Here is an image which points out the need to consider all possibilites before assigning a mechanism to the formation
of features. This object is 2 inches across the long way. Those crater chains look just like what we have seen at larger
scale and in some of my experiments. seen also in the ancient metal spheres of South Africa, i'll try an image of that up as soon as i find a good one. d...z




http://www.electric-spark-scars.com

[StefanR]

Another image in the slide show is of a disturbance of dust, they claim is a dust storm.

It's a stunning picture indeed. The questions that you raise are mine too.

A little while ago someone pointed me to this page, which was interesting as it made me think of this thread:

If you turn north and bump along Harquahala Road about a half mile, you see a series of low hills on your left, shouldered by a taller range of mountains to the west. The low hills are steep and stony, resembling the weathered pyramids found on the Yucutan Peninsula of Mexico. Although less than a mile to the freeway, silence embraces the broad box canyon and a dry wash bisects the basin.

More than a month ago I bumped down the dirt track that winds into the box canyon and unloaded my camping gear. After spreading my sleeping bag I tucked under the covers and enjoyed the light show of the Milky Way above me. Most city people have never seen it and some don't even know what it is.

Tucked under the covers, I called a friend in California. After a minute I noticed a glow rising above a nearby peak to the north and I said I saw the harvest moon. Then another orange disc rose alongside it, just above the peak. Glowing yellowish orange, the twin orbs hovered on the ridge and I wondered what optical illusion could cause twin moons. Must be a pair of ATVs, I thought, or maybe dirt bikers. Must be a road up to the crest, I concluded. In the morning I would hike to the top and see what was there.

Then, without a sound, the pair of lights receded down again. Still on the phone, I half-joked that I spotted a UFO, hovering on the hill near my campsite. Then, just as suddenly, the lights rose again. For some reason the lights did not appear to be typical headlights. They never bumped, shifted or jiggled, as one would expect headlights attached to dirt bikes or ATVs bumping over rocky terrain. Once again, I heard no sound, which surprised me. No straining engines, no loud voices of dirt bikers, nothing.

Next morning I arose and stared at the peak. The low hill stood less than a quarter mile distant. After an easy climb to the top, I fully expected to see a road or a rutted trail. Nothing. Neither did I spot any tracks leading to the saddle where I saw the lights. Instead I saw a blasted pit surrounded by heavy stones that appeared to have been flung from the depression. No dirt bike or ATV could have moved those stones, some of them weighing over fifty pounds.

Why this puzzling depression, I wondered? Why this insignificant hill, surrounded by taller peaks? Were the mysterious lights somehow connected to the shallow pit? The rocks lay white against the surrounding, undisturbed stones, covered with what is called desert varnish. Still, I searched the sloped for a dirt trail that indicated all-terrain vehicles. I never saw even a single overturned boulder that would indicate an ATV wrenching up the hill, loosening rocks.

A month later I returned with a friend. I joked that it might be nice to have some sort of radiation detector.

We hiked to the top of the rugged hill and my friend looked closely at the pit. She noticed numerous melted nodules, like caramelized sugar, speckling the overturned stones. What caused that, we wondered. Was it related to the unidentified flying (hovering) object? Or was it simply circumstantial, like a puzzling form of desert glass? I've seen types of pale blue, naturally-occurring desert glass in northern Arizona but not this type of honey yellow nodules, resembling amber.

http://www.rense.com/general84/myown.htm

[dahlenaz]

Another image in the slide show is of a disturbance of dust, they claim is a dust storm.

It's a stunning picture indeed. The questions that you raise are mine too.

A little while ago someone pointed me to this page, which was interesting as it made me think of this thread:

More than a month ago I bumped down the dirt track that winds into the box canyon and unloaded my camping gear. After spreading my sleeping bag I tucked under the covers and enjoyed the light show of the Milky Way above me. Most city people have never seen it and some don't even know what it is.

Tucked under the covers, I called a friend in California. After a minute I noticed a glow rising above a nearby peak to the north and I said I saw the harvest moon. Then another orange disc rose alongside it, just above the peak. Glowing yellowish orange, the twin orbs hovered on the ridge and I wondered what optical illusion could cause twin moons.

http://www.rense.com/general84/myown.htm

Last month had an interesting moon and twin planet arrangement in the sky. The moon and two planets
rose almost in the same degree or two. This is probably what was seen. Several people asked me about the identity of the two planets here is what things looked like on Dec. 1, 08 at 15:00 utc. Later in the month the moon would risen seperated from the two planets giving the twin light on the horrizon effect below a waxing (?) moon.

http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/wspac ... =1&brite=1



Now that tha mystery is solved, we need to looks at what she found in light of other earthly mechanisms such a
lightning, that the person just happened to stumble onto while chasing a mystery.


d...z

http://www.electric-spark-scars.com

[dahlenaz]

Another image in the slide show is of a disturbance of dust, they claim is a dust storm.

It's a stunning picture indeed. The questions that you raise are mine too.

I'll get back to you on this once i'm done digging around for other images of this same activity.
The orbitor used, i was told by one researcher, is constantly shooting during passages.

Malin Space Science Systems is where the image originated.
http://www.msss.com/msss_images/subject ... torms.html

The characteristic about this disturbance that caught my eye is
that it looks more like what a brush fire or a forest fire
or a stampeeding heard of martian buffalo would look like
and not at all like any dust storm i've seen.
And i live in a place that has them
regularly, they dont have sharp fronts unless they are coming
through a draw between two hills. And wouldn't a dense
airmass be needed to keep such a cloud of dust confined? The
dust storms proximity to trenches and crater chains makes me
suspicious of other activity. It is on the downwind side of
those features but that should only matter in a dense atmosphere
and there should be other areas of dusturbance if it were from
movement of atmosphere. zane

[dahlenaz]

To give fair consideration to other mechanisms which could account for the localized characteristic and battallion of tanks on the move appearance of this disturbance some other possibilities should be brought into this discussion so
that you won't be wondering way they are not considered.

One mechanism to consider is an out-gassing of some sort. I don't know of what but it was suggested by one person
as their first reaction. The surrounding features were noted by them as related. You probaly know my initial reply, but
there may be some points to consider along this chain of thinking. If it is a gaseous release and the dust is
getting high enough, creating a path for electrical activity, might there be discharges from higher in the atmosphere to the ground or from the charged surrounding surface to the material being released in the atmosphere? Anyone know of a lightening detector around Mars, I can't imagnine going to all that expense and not having one there? If there were lightening bolts making there way though the dust plume, in the same manner that they do through volcanic erruptions, then the fresh-looking crater chains and other electric discharge features would be a reasonable aspect of the dust activity in the area. The one may have started a chain reaction, a cascade of explosive releases and electric discharges. Just thinking out loud you know. d...z

http://www.electric-spark-scars.com

[StefanR]

the dust is
getting high enough, creating a path for electrical activity, might there be discharges from higher in the atmosphere to the ground or from the charged surrounding surface to the material being released in the atmosphere? Anyone know of a lightening detector around Mars, I can't imagnine going to all that expense and not having one there? If there were lightening bolts making there way though the dust plume, in the same manner that they do through volcanic erruptions, then the fresh-looking crater chains and other electric discharge features would be a reasonable aspect of the dust activity in the area.

Well what bothers me is that I can't find/remember the website were I saw that image a while ago. It was not that Times or the MSSS website, very anoying.
But as you said about the electric stuff and the dust soem of that is discussed here and there:

25 April 2004
Electric Dust Devils
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=zg70y10m

and

Based on field studies on Earth, laboratory experiments and theoretical modeling, the researchers argue that oxidizing chemicals could be produced by the static electricity generated in the swirling dust clouds that often obscure the surface for months, said University of California, Berkeley, physicist Gregory T. Delory, first author of one of the papers. If these chemicals have been produced regularly over the last 3 billion years, when Mars has presumably been dry and dusty, the accumulated peroxide in the surface soil could have built to levels that would kill "life as we know it," he said.

The article by Delory and his colleagues appearing in the June issue of Astrobiology demonstrates that the electrical fields generated in storms and smaller tornadoes, called dust devils, could split carbon dioxide and water molecules apart, allowing them to recombine as hydrogen peroxide or more complicated superoxides. All of these oxidants react readily with and destroy other molecules, including organic molecules that are associated with life.

A second paper, coauthored by Delory, demonstrates that these oxidants could form and reach such concentrations near the ground during a storm that they would condense into falling snow, contaminating the top layers of soil.

Based on these studies, he and his colleagues used plasma physics models to understand how dust particles rubbing against one other during a storm become positively and negatively charged, much the way static electricity builds up when we walk across a carpet, or electricity builds in thunderclouds. Though there's no evidence for lightning discharges on Mars, the electric field generated when charged particles separate in a dust storm could accelerate electrons to speeds sufficient to knock molecules apart, Delory and his colleagues found.

"From our field work, we know that strong electric fields are generated by dust storms on Earth. Also, laboratory experiments and theoretical studies indicate that conditions in the Martian atmosphere should produce strong electric fields during dust storms there as well," said co-author Dr. William Farrell of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

Production of oxidants by dust storms and dust devils, which seem to be common on Mars, would be sufficient to cause the Viking observations, Delory said. Thirty years ago, some researchers considered the possibility that dust storms might be electrically active, like Earth's thunderstorms, and that these storms might be a source of the new reactive chemistry. But this had been untestable until now.

"The presence of peroxide may explain the quandary we have had with Mars, but there is still a lot we don't understand about the chemistry of the atmosphere and soils of the planet," he said.

The theory could be tested further by an electric field sensor working in tandem with an atmospheric chemistry system on a future Mars rover or lander, according to the team members.

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases ... xide.shtml

[dahlenaz]

the dust is
getting high enough, creating a path for electrical activity, might there be discharges from higher in the atmosphere to the ground or from the charged surrounding surface to the material being released in the atmosphere? Anyone know of a lightening detector around Mars, I can't imagnine going to all that expense and not having one there? If there were lightening bolts making there way though the dust plume, in the same manner that they do through volcanic erruptions, then the fresh-looking crater chains and other electric discharge features would be a reasonable aspect of the dust activity in the area.

Well what bothers me is that I can't find/remember the website were I saw that image a while ago. It was not that Times or the MSSS website, very anoying.
But as you said about the electric stuff and the dust soem of that is discussed here and there:

25 April 2004
Electric Dust Devils
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=zg70y10m

and

Though there's no evidence for lightning discharges on Mars, the electric field generated when charged particles separate in a dust storm could accelerate electrons to speeds sufficient to knock molecules apart, Delory and his colleagues found.

quote]http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases ... xide.shtml

As for electric discharges, which we are concerned with, Arcs are not necessary in order to disturb the surface, and then there is electric wind, which has been demonstrated by me and others, which seems to be (in my case) a state of charge differential between one area of the monitor, my fingeer and another area of the monitor. Material gets relocated on the monitor from one location to another, rather violantly, and it creates a couple of different features. There are images at this link: http://cybertrails.com/~zrwoaz/featured-images.html which show two types. One of them to the side of the lid. d...z

http://www.electric-spark-scars.com

[dahlenaz]

I just put up a new page that may interest you and maybe you can fill in the blanks
about what i've made with an electric current through sand in a salt water solution.
Here is an image to spark your interest. d...z



Here is the link to the page:
http://www.para-az.com/salty-sand.html

These are the other images.
http://www.para-az.com/dsc329s40.jpg
http://www.para-az.com/dsc326s95c.jpg
http://www.para-az.com/dsc325s70c.jpg
http://www.para-az.com/dsc320s70c.jpg
http://www.para-az.com/dsc319c.jpg

http://www.electric-spark-scars.com

[dahlenaz]

The discoloration of this material, involved in the latest experiment, brings me to wonder about coloration
in sandstone formations in place around the southwest u.s., such as Monument Valley, Sedona and
likely elsewhere.
This material remains compactable for far longer than the sand material saturated with just water.
Several changes have occurred and electric current through the sand material in solution with saltwater is the cause.
Now what can this tell use of geologic formations? d...z



Somewhat detailsed writeup at: http://www.para-az.com/salty-sand.html

http://www.electric-spark-scars.com