Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Many Internet forums have carried discussion of the Electric Universe hypothesis. Much of that discussion has added more confusion than clarity, due to common misunderstandings of the electrical principles. Here we invite participants to discuss their experiences and to summarize questions that have yet to be answered.

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Faderbaby
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by Faderbaby » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:58 pm

I'm not suggesting that NASA isn't doing valuable science or that they might find evidence of other life as we know it. I hope they do. They detail the difficulty of defining "life" as it regards the Origins Program. The definition of "life" - as accepted by the public - determines much of the way that the missions are presented to the public. Science fiction can also shape the public opinion of new concepts of "life" in ways that might benefit EU theory.

Faderbaby
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by Faderbaby » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:26 am

Nick,

I found the reference to rarity of life as we know it on http://saturniancosmology.org/. It states that:
The biology of Earth is such a complete accident and an utterly unlikely event that it will not likely to have ever been duplicated anywhere or at any time among the billions of other star systems. All of it, especially the rise of complex species since the Cambrian Period, 560 million years ago, can be attributed to a series of cataclysmic plasma strikes by Saturn.
I don't know if this is accurate, but it certainly conflicts with NASAs (and the publicly-held) belief that the Universe must be teeming with life.

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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:52 am

The biology of Earth is such a complete accident and an utterly unlikely event that it will not likely to have ever been duplicated anywhere or at any time among the billions of other star systems. All of it, especially the rise of complex species since the Cambrian Period, 560 million years ago, can be attributed to a series of cataclysmic plasma strikes by Saturn.
This is total rubbish. Firstly he has no proof that the biologogy of Earth is an accident nor that Earth has ever been subject to a series of plasma strikes from Saturn. Secondly, even if he is correct about the plasma strikes it does not logically follow that these strikes or any resultant Earth biology were necessarily accidental. Thirdly, there are untold numbers of stars and planets in the Universe so it is entirely possible that a similar configuration to our solar system, Saturnian or otherwise, could exist.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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nick c
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by nick c » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:39 am

Hi Faderbaby,
I am familiar with the "saturn cosmology" website that you linked to and quoted. While the author draws on the work of numerous Saturnist and catastrophist writers, I would not consider him a spokesman for the EU paradigm, or Saturn Theory in general, and he probably would be the first to admit that. He is putting forth his own version of events. The site has been discussed on this forum before, and several posters, myself included, questioned how he arrived at some of his conclusions. I personally feel he is going beyond the scope of the methodology, used by his sources to reveal the experiences from our past, and coming up with unsubstantiated detail and specifics. Of course, he is entitled to his speculations, as is everyone.
Quote:
The biology of Earth is such a complete accident and an utterly unlikely event that it will not likely to have ever been duplicated anywhere or at any time among the billions of other star systems. All of it, especially the rise of complex species since the Cambrian Period, 560 million years ago, can be attributed to a series of cataclysmic plasma strikes by Saturn.
The way I read the above quote, the author is proposing that the present state of life on Earth is the result of a long series of low probability events, not likely to have been repeated elsewhere, and therefore, we are not likely to find a planet with a biosphere similar to Earths'. I don't necessarily agree. But the quote also, doesn't exclude the possibility that planets with biospheres very different from that of Earth exist. When and if extraterrestial life is discovered it would be no surprise if it were very different, in some way or another, from that seen on Earth. That sort of theme is the lifeblood of Star Trek and sci fi in general.
Grey Cloud wrote:
there are untold numbers of stars and planets in the Universe so it is entirely possible that a similar configuration to our solar system, Saturnian or otherwise, could exist.
I agree, seems that it is more logical to work from the assumption that conditions would be duplicated elsewhere, given the vastness of the universe.

Nick

Faderbaby
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by Faderbaby » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:42 am

Secondly, even if he is correct about the plasma strikes it does not logically follow that these strikes or any resultant Earth biology were necessarily accidental.
Are you inferring Intelligent design? Also, I take your other points - and those of nick c - that this author is very controversial. I admire the amazing volume of "data" and the thought that went into it. I don't know how he could generate the models without the use of super-computers or the facilities of JPL. My "proof" of this is that he does project his ideas into the future. NASA and JPL are able to do that with accuracy. But I admire the volume of effort :). And of course the odds (if the universe is infinite) would favor MANY solar systems forming from any scenario.
But the quote also, doesn't exclude the possibility that planets with biospheres very different from that of Earth exist. When and if extraterrestial life is discovered it would be no surprise if it were very different, in some way or another, from that seen on Earth. That sort of theme is the lifeblood of Star Trek and sci fi in general.
I also think that sci-fi promotes public interest in forums like this one and can and will promote new ideas for a new generation. "The kids" are going to love plasma, IMHO!

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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by redeye » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:56 pm

I admire the amazing volume of "data" and the thought that went into it.
I would have to defend the Saturn Cosmology website and agree with the comment above. This was the first thing I read regarding the Saturn configuration and I just took it as Science fiction. However the vast amount of information and ideas contained within impressed me greatly and helped me think about things in a different manner.

That's the important thing for me - Changing the way I think.
I take everything with a pinch of salt!

Cheers!
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MGmirkin
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by MGmirkin » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:11 pm

Faderbaby wrote:Nick,
I found the reference to rarity of life as we know it on http://saturniancosmology.org/.
*Record screeches*

I seem to recall that's somebody's personal site, not necessarily associated with EU / PC. Granted, they may have taken snippets from here and there, but I recall they've also jumbled it up a bit and mixed it with their own ideas, so who knows what comes out in the end...

I'd take everything on there with a hefty grain of salt. Not saying there aren't snippets of truth in there, just that it's hard to separate out from personal speculation and hypotheticals. Anyway... Wal's thoughts on the matter were that a planet inside the envelope of a brown dwarf's atmosphere might be the ideal place for life to develop.

http://www.holoscience.com/synopsis.php?page=10

Granted, it's speculative also. Don't know if it's accurate or not.

Just saying that if you're looking for the EU take on where one might look for life, that's probably the closest to something official-ish from thunderbolts.info or holoscience.com.

Feel free to check out the Plasma & Electricity, From Micro To Macro and Beyond... thread for the section on the Biological Domain. There's some interesting stuff in there with regard to organic precursors, electrical interactions, dusty plasma, DNA, etc.

Cheers,
~Michael
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by Faderbaby » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:45 pm

MG,

Ouch! I hope that wasn't 'Aja' on colored vinyl! Anyway, that individual is actually a photography teacher, but it's such a massive find that it's one of those websites that you show your friends and say, "Wow - you won't believe what this guy did!". Maybe it could better be described as a fan site run amok (and on steroids)? There might even be a "Chariots of The Gods" kind of pop culture appeal. It's a 'guilty pleasure' I guess :oops:

I'm still interested in whether Intelligent Design is a component of EU/PC in general. I am continuing to learn this subject and I was curious about that previous remark by Grey Cloud that seemed to suggest something like that.

From my first (recent) awareness of EU/PC, I looked at Thunderbolts and several websites associated with Don Scott, Thornhill and Talbott as the big kids on the block. For one thing, one has a portal to Los Alamos (that speaks for itself)! http://www.plasmacosmology.net/links.html is an example. As a non-scientist, I'm more interested in what grabs the public interest than absolute scientific accuracy (which others here will always be much better at). So, that's really my focus. I think "PR" was sort of the origins of this thread. (I'm interested in reading the "good stuff" too though).

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davesmith_au
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by davesmith_au » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:30 pm

faderbaby wrote:I'm still interested in whether Intelligent Design is a component of EU/PC in general.
Giday Jack, neither Intelligent Design, nor Darwinist evolution, nor straightforward Christian Creation, nor ... you get the picture, are "components" of EU/PC. That is, EU/PC has NOTHING to say on the grand origin of everything, apart from the fact that Big Bang cosmology simply does not work.

Different proponents of EU have differing views on such matters, and keep them very much to themselves, which is as it should be. Because regardless of how it all came to be, we are here and now and trying to understand it all here and now, with what we have, from a scientific perspective and not a philosophical/religious/otherwise perspective. Bottom line, it doesn't matter how it all came about, people will argue about that until the cows come home and beyond. What does matter is how it all works, and that's what we are essentially trying to find out here.

So whilst many folk have an interest in the 'origins of everything' debate, we ask folk around here to keep such talk to a bare minimum, as it has little bearing on how it all works. I know people will disagree with that statement, but quite frankly I don't care. There are plenty of other forums for discussing (arguing about) religions, politics etc but we here would like to discourage such discussion as it is irrelevent to EU/PC theory, and usually quickly spirals out of control into time-consuming and useless arguments.

This is in no way a personal admonition, just advice to all here to try to maintain the integrity and intentions of this forum as a whole.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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Faderbaby
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Re: Why Nobody Cares About Plasma

Unread post by Faderbaby » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:04 am

Thank you Dave! I think that's very relevant for individuals who are new to this topic, such as myself. I think my confusion was in wondering what "mythology" could possibly have to do with "electricity". To a lot of people, "mythology" means "ancient religion". Anyone new to this topic could easily (and innocently) make that mistake. I think what is referred to in "Origins of Myth" are ancient observations. That is then viewed through new scientific concepts of EU and PC. That connection might not be immediately obvious to the casual observer.

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