Recovered: Remembering Velikovsky

[david barclay]

Being a Velikovsky fan for so many years I have given some thought to the dating of these historical upheavals.

The whole issue rests on the idea that the solar system is not as eternal as we might like to think. There is no guarantee how long our solar system will remain stable.

You have to remember that the timing is not nailed down or even close to being nailed down, in relation to what we are talking about in respect to time.

The value of time changes while at the same time there are differentials in time existing between the planets, moons and stars.

So trying to nail it down in terms of years is not very likely to be of much help. But it would appear that the earth has been through some major upheavals during historical times, which means our planet has been repositioned in its orbit around the sun during historical times, during the age of modern man. Not a pleasant experience I'm sure.

This I feel is the main reason why Velikovsky was given such a difficult time, its as much a political issue as it is an issue of science. And here lies the problem with our standard science; in attempting to accommodate the political agenda of our modern world.

[WCSally]

Imagine, if you a large and powerful enough vibration generator, what you might find beneath the desert sands of Egypt, for example. Probably hidden temples, with ancient secrets. Some people have made the statement that ancient people knew of this phenomenom. This would could explain how Moses parted the Red Sea as he fled Egypt. Just a wild thought......

That the Egyptians were in the footsteps of a very advanced race is rather obvious. That race may however have had some "issues" .. with it's own history.

In the Tablets of Thoth it mentions the workings of The G^ds underground (if that is where he actually was).
And Velekovski mentions that the Hebrews saw the throne of G^d when the Red Sea was parted ... but then they wandered in a world where plants died, and animals were sustained by Manna for over a decade; and wandered longer, until that entire generation had passed! ... So it is indeed a very closely guarded concept, even from the chosen People. Stan Tenten http://www.meetingtent.com/ has successfully approached much of this esoteric wisdom ... His work is quite compelling.

Some of that ancient wisdom is also discovered in the work of Carl Munck!


Consider for a moment that there were civilizations all over the globe which came through the ice ages underground. Egypt and South America most dominant among them ... Memphis is the Priestly Domain, the city under Giza is reputed to be HUGE ~~ 10,000 people comfortably!!
....
Also the extensive water in the region in earlier times, made great underground channels ... some may flow from Siwa to Giza


...
There is much we do not know of our own world, but we have to get our "civility" together ... as others have lived here for as long or longer than we (IMVHO, of course).

I think you would find the Book Worlds in Collision by Velekovsky to be very, very interesting, as he discusses this exact event (but without the physics of how the Comet (if it was a comet and not an ET craft) would have influenced the water of the Red Sea to stand in a vertical plane)! If it was part of the destroyed plantet Ceres (asteroid belt) that may have accounted for the naphtha which Velekovski envisions causing the torching of the lands. [[LaViolette believes it was an inter solar system dense particle plasma causing T.tauri events on our sun. So some difference of opinion on this.]]

I found the book extraordinary, and the mind of the man who wrote it must have been encyclopedic!! He was also dedicated to the Truth, and making the Truth known to others who were inclined to seek it.
...
It is another of the reasons I am here, as this board is partly of his works.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Sally,
Velikovsky needs no introduction here, the site is run by his disciples.
And, IMVHO, Velikovsky wouldn't know Truth if he stepped in it up his waist.

[WCSally]

Hi Sally,
Velikovsky needs no introduction here, the site is run by his disciples.
And, IMVHO, Velikovsky wouldn't know Truth if he stepped in it up his waist.

Ah, you are too kind (or something). Have you read him?

And I know this site is an off shoot of the last of his works (and I wonder if any copies lie about as PDFs or other formats?), and that it has spawned a new view surprises me not at all!

What does surprise me is that it took this long, and this many years of reading (and talking with the thin layer of people I would never have found without the web) to come to some of these conclusions! ... Which, when one looks at them, seem like they should have been very nearly self evident. But we get such a job done on us in school.

Happy Holidays.

[webolife]

Immanuel Velikovsky had some very "decent" ideas, some of which have made a reasonably deep impression on me.
I will not be the last to admit, however, that much evidence has surfaced in the last several decades that counters his science. Nevertheless, a philosophy may be at least partly correct, even with a paucity of evidence. I.V. was a catastrophist, as are many on this forum, and that was his main downfall in standard science circles. The more we discover about the EU, the more I.V.'s ideas are vindicated.

[WCSally]

Immanuel Velikovsky had some very "decent" ideas, some of which have made a reasonably deep impression on me.
I will not be the last to admit, however, that much evidence has surfaced in the last several decades that counters his science. Nevertheless, a philosophy may be at least partly correct, even with a paucity of evidence. I.V. was a catastrophist, as are many on this forum, and that was his main downfall in standard science circles. The more we discover about the EU, the more I.V.'s ideas are vindicated.

This is interesting ... what has come up to counter his "science"? ... I am aware that he was at the early days of many disciplines which have blossomed -- but that only makes him out of date as it were. Is there anything which he had actually "wrong?" (I would love to find more of his work.)

I think his ability to find and delineate for others those things which were hidden from us by the massive loss of life and culture -- is a wonderful gift; an amazing ability for sharp insights culled from data crossing many domains.

I am certain some of this came from the breadth of his life's work (you can tell I was really impressed, and I have only read one book!).

I am here to delve into the EU: ... Where is the good baseline for initiating study? .. ... after I.V.

And as for our current belief that "nothing goes wrong, and we are somehow exempt from "catastrophe" .. I think our own current evidence begs to differ. This current time frame has just been very, very kind to life on this planet.

If Jupiter had not absorbed S.L.-9, we might have a different outlook on comets!! Instead of pretty space objects to ogle, and make theories about. In Tibet if a comet is seen, the people take the pots and pans out from the house and the whole community makes a ruckus like to wake the dead. So the old view still lives in Tibet!

What is your take on this being caused by a collision between the Milky Way and the Dwarf Sagittarius Galaxy?
I'm pretty certain the D.S. Galaxy is known here. I don't know if the time frames mesh!

We also have a very small current intruder ... about 2 solar systems large I think, and very, very energetic (bright)!! This and that object on a mad dash across space really make me wonder!!

I am not aware of how many bodies in our solar system are in retrograde orbit, but that is not default for a system, and it says quite a bit about something that happened.

The Asteroid belt ... certainly is not "normal" ... and I hope that some time in the not too distant future we set up a set of top and bottom satellites to scan the debris fields for all kinds of movement and residual charge data (as well as minerals) ... [that is to say, to sandwich the debris field between two sets of scanner-sats ... data mine and map it. There may be movement traces left there which would be very informative, for fact loving scientists.

[WCSally]

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: HIS MAJOR CLAIMS Reply with quote
OP "lk"

I think his main claims, based on mythological records and scientific data, were as follows.
1. Venus emerged from Jupiter in an incandescant comet-like state and some decades or centuries later made a close approach to the earth at the time of the Exodus, about 1450 BC, which approach caused all of the ten plagues, and about 50 years later made the final close approach, causing the earth to stop rotating for a few hours, before returning to normal rotation.
2. Venus had encounters with Mars, which set Mars off-course, causing it to make 2 or more close approaches to earth and our moon around 700 BC, which produced further, but less serious, catastrophes.
3. Mankind was traumatized by the cataclysms and subconsciously preferred to think the records were greatly exaggerated and fantacy.
4. Egyptian history is largely about 500 years too ancient, whereas Biblical history is much more accurate.
5. Saturn exploded as a Nova, ejecting water which caused the Great Flood.
.
What Velikovsky's main supporters are claiming now is this.
6. Earth, Mars and Venus all emerged from Saturn at different times, as did many or most of the moons, that the Saturn system originated outside of the solar system, and that the cataclysms Velikovsky described actually occurred centuries to millennia before the Exodus, when the Saturn system first entered the solar system. This combines #1, 2 & 5. David Talbott started to develop this idea in the early 70s. Wal Thornhill started helping elaborate the theory in the early 90s, I think.
7. Electrical forces shape most of the universe and are even responsible for the force of gravity. Velikovsky first suggested that electrical forces played a significant role in the near approaches with Mars, especially when the ancients referred to thunderbolts from Zeus and the apparently electrified net he put around Mars and the moon. This apparently led to electrical engineer Ralph Juergens' studies into the moon and Mars episode. This and his familiarity with Charles Bruce's and others' theories of electrical forces shaping galaxies etc seem to have led to his theory that the sun and all stars are electrically powered, not nuclear powered. Thornhill accepted Juergens' theory and extended it a lot.
8. They seem to agree that Velikovsky was right about #3 & 4, that mankind suffered amnesia and that the traumatic fear carries on in the human race, keeping science uniformitarian, and that Egyptian history is wrong largely in the way he said and that Biblical history is more correct.
He identified Oedipus Rex of the Greek tragedy with the Egyptian pharaoh, Akhnaten, whom conventional history still dates way too early.
9. Velikovsky's major error was in dating the cataclysms too recently in historical times. Therefore, the Exodus plagues and other historical catastrophes were not caused by a close approach with comet Venus or with Mars etc.
10. His major legacy may be the discovery that ancient mythology was a fairly accurate record of ancient events.

Awesome ... A chance to ask questions and to pick a nit with some ideas!!

1. "Venus emerged from Jupiter" ... This one .. yea and nay ... Saturn as a retired Brown Dwarf, yea, Jupiter as a proto-sun .. possibly. If suns are electric, there must be a significant amount of materials present on the surface of the sphere to continuously propagate a reaction. Not knowing the time scales, nor the reactions this is just a pie in the sky idea, but it is an idea. Saturn, however, seems more like a retied star, and the radially lined rings, and the curiously Mercury-esque small body on the outer edges of them seem to reinforce this. (Mercury-esque should have a partner).

Was Typhon really an expulsion product? .. or was it part of the old 5th planet (which I will call Ceres)?

Saturn coming to the system, or something passing through the system may have caused the retrograde orbits, and the "Asteroid Belt" ... The massive expanded form of Typhon .. the extra water, the "naptha" (? cold simi-liquid methane from a water rich world?); could they have been pieces and parts of Ceres?

Mars sad plight makes me think it may have been a Ceres' Moon, but it suffered a terrible fate. The near pass spoken of later in the text which caused the sun to stand in the sky (rotation ceases) .. that may have been Venus on its way to it's orbit. And later it's EM sheath was trouble, and more trouble --for a long time (Egypt and S. Amer). In fact, it could be trouble again!!

The Maya marked and celebrated the Birth of Venus, so this planet is recent --within Mayan History. This should be documented somewhere (quite likely in Spanish .. a great deal of the really neat and new research is on the web in Spanish!).

There is also an as yet not completely decoded site marking Venus and Regulus ... the one with the "tank tracks" up one side, the circle on top, and much more. I have not found the pages on this, but I suspect it will unravel a great deal when it is really understood. ... It is not really so hard assume their perspectives, we just have to made dedicated attempts, with good understanding.

2 .. just leave open for the moment

3. or religious people prefer not to speak of the devil lest he wake, and so fabricate comfy perverications.

4. I thought he got this all sorted out in those volumes on Egyptian History (Ramses, and etc) .. I read 1.3 of these, he is quite thorough!

5. see 1 .. already done.

6.

"Earth, Mars and Venus all emerged from Saturn at different times, as did many or most of the moons, that the Saturn system originated outside of the solar system, and that the cataclysms Velikovsky described actually occurred centuries to millennia before the Exodus"

With this one I have a few bones to pick. Earth, here, Mars, a moon of Ceres, Venus an expulsion product --or a big chunk of Ceres moved to a new orbit? .. If expulsion, more likely of Saturn than Jupiter.
Many of the moons (esp. in retrograde orbits) caught from the destruction of Ceres; and we will be able to confirm or dismiss this idea when we have samples of IO water (for example) and water left in the asteroid belt. Huygens did not give us any bio-spectral data that I know of. The curious interactions of IO and Jupiter seem "somehow" not quite natural to me .. but I would be hard pressed to explain it. Never the less, a great deal of power is generated from the ice clad ball of water and Jupiter .. a great deal indeed (pun intended).
As Velekovski generated much of his foundations for event timing from biblical reference, I have no reason to believe he was off target.

7. ... progress!

8.

Oedipus Rex of the Greek tragedy = allegory for the Egyptian pharaoh, Akhnaten

This is amazing indeed. I have wondered why the People of the Ancient World were "tied" to incestuous marriages. What could be the reason for this DNA degrading demand? ...
But is it not a means of control, by that jealous G^d?
It reminds me of Osiris between Isis and Neftus, perhaps it is a protective device?
Was it "made necessary" by the reformulating of the DNA of the Adam (and his Eve) to be short lived and possibly some other things (lacking some items which allowed certain types of experiences of the mind?) -- knowledge which was kept by the Ancients of the Orient and of India.
Were they tied to this system in order to maintain their own genetic heritage? Have we sequenced any DNA from the teeth of the Very Tall Skulls from various locals?
Those peoples who find themselves living on the 45 between the 90 degree corners (the 45 of the Ojo de Dio, and the wavey lines [of water or plasma energy] in some glyphs) .. may have a slightly different view of the world and it's workings I think. And "like the Corner of the Stage at Yonaguni" .. are like unto the sight of G^d. Even if the "Hat/Headdress" is ornately Mayan.

9. nah

10 Yeah.

I see there is more in the post below this one; but I will have to read the texts they came from as some of them were surprising.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Sally,
Yes, I've read Velokovsky - wouldn't have commented otherwise.

The 10 points above:

1. Venus didn't emerge from Jupiter. Aphrodite is not Athene. Athene is the planet Jupiter - read Homer's Iliad. (I recommend the Chapman trans).
Typhon was born of Gaia/Earth. Read the first two books (chapters) of Nonnus' Dionysiaca for the best account of a plasma event.
The Maya didn't mark the birth of Venus. The Maya go back a long way and in any case, their predecessors, from whom they inherited their culture, go back even further. The Egyptians and Chinese have recorcords of Venus.
The Spanish destroyed everything native they could lay their hands on.

2. Venus did have close encounters with Mars - date or dates unknowable. See the Iliad.

3. Jungian nonsense without any proof. Funny how only Jung and his disciples are immune from this 'collective amnesia'.

4. Egyptian dating is very problematic. Bible is not history as we understand it - no ancient text is. Only a fool reads them literally.
Check Velikovsky's sources. Always check sources.

5. I think not.

6. Read the world's creation myths - Earth is generally one of the first things created. Ares/Mars is a son of Zeus not Kronos/Saturn. Aphrodite/Venus is more problematic but the planets were all there before the Olympians.

7. Not particularly interested in the science one way or t'other. Zeus is not the only Greek god who has thunderbolts.

8. Oedipus is allegory not history.
People of the ancient world were not tied to incestuous marriages. Incestuous marriages among deities were symbolic.
Gods are cosmic forces not old guys with beards. This has been known for thousands of years and is still known today by intelligent people who read ancient texts. Try Proclus' Commentary on the Timaeus; anything by Schwaller de Lubicz; or Sri Aroubindo's Secret of the Veda as a few examples.

You've been reading too many bookks by modern authors with their buzzwords such as DNA.

9. Velikovsky's major error was putting pen to paper.

10. It wasn't his 'discovery'. There had been catastrophists before him.

Rather than read more Velikovsky or more of these modern authors, why not try reading the original ancient texts? Get your info straight from the horse's mouth. These ancient author's didn't have product to move.

'Catastrophes' are not one-off random events, they are cyclical - everything in the Universe is cyclical. And that is a clue to dating these events.

See:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... extinction
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... nt+textual

[WCSally]

Venus ... ? Emerged from Jupiter? [Did not post any idea, just asked]
IF: Jupiter IS Chronos :: ... it is not possible for Venus to be his child, the only child Chronos did not eat was Zeus!

And Zeus created the Zodiac, or the 12 houses (or if you follow another culture's line of thought, the 12 planets in the Orion Arm with People on them).

Athene is the planet Jupiter - read Homer's Iliad ...

Thanks! I will ...
This makes great sense if Athena is also Coatlique!!
Both had Serptnets for skirts, and aegis (shield).
It might also be the reason that Seven Macaw was taken out by the Hero Twins, if he was the son of Athena/Coatlique.

How was Typhon Born of Earth?

Read the first two books (chapters) of Nonnus' Dionysiaca for the best account of a plasma event.

Thanks! ... NONNOS OF PANOPOLITANUS is only available at the resource desk .. I will see what I can manage. Sitting there does not sit well with me.

Actually I thought the Maya believed that Venus was the Birth of Quetzalcoatl .. after he left them on his boat of serpents and went back to his 'origins'. ..
This after Double Coyote --his father and The Lord of the Dark Smoking Mirror --his uncle, showed him his "body". Then not event the necromancers could sway him from his decision to return to it.

Of course the work of charting the progress of Venus and the mythos may have been Olmec .. I just have it associated with the Maya, from the place I read of it. However:

Maya were around when the Chineese and the Egyptians were around ... they were even around back in the days of MU/Lemuria (Frank Joseph's book...lots of citings). They called Mu-vians The People of the Hills of Mud.

Still open on Venus/Mars/Earth encounters ... just getting to this

3. Funny how only Jung and his disciples are immune from this 'collective amnesia'.

Babies always have to learn it all again.
Reincarnated souls "may" have a little head start?
I think it is a function of natural evolution! .. Artists are very tuned to this stuff, -- presumably because they are carriers for older (transmigrated) souls? Just a thought, not a theory ... and nothing to prove here.


4. LOL ... amen ... EVERYTHING currenly Egyptian is problematic!! ... And that is why I offer the idea I offer up in # 3 .... OR --- someone has something very, very importatnt to find, and wants no one to have any clues about it until he is done and gone. =massive misdirection campaign!! ~ ???
But in that event, is Egypt even the right place to look? ... I am not convinced it is!!!


5. You think not this:??

Was Typhon really an expulsion product? .. OR ... was it part of the old 5th planet (which I will call Ceres)?

Saturn coming to the system, or something passing through the system may have caused the retrograde orbits, and the "Asteroid Belt" ... The total annihilation of Ceres, may have provided the massive expanded form of Typhon .. the extra water, the "naptha" (? cold simi-liquid methane --easily captured by larger bodies, from a water rich world?); could Typhon have been pieces and parts of Ceres?

You think Thphon was born of Earth? And could you provide a background for that?

6. Kronos/Saturn/(Aphrodite?) .. ate all his own kids .. And Zeus was spared by some trickery ... not unlike Moses, and Horus .... And because he was, he changed the Earth's world order. (maybe a bigger human order?) ...

Was Zeus the progenitor of the South American Races (while Africa was being mined for Gold and Diamonds? Was Zeus the builder of Teotehuacan (where "the rod" sank into the ground), ultimately the father of Horus/Quetzalcoatl, using his daughter Coatlique/Athena as the Woman/Goddess Of the people? Was Double Coyote, a kindred soul of Anubus?

Aphrodite/Venus ... FOAM BORN ... this says a lot.
Athena .. Thigh Born .. Strange as it may sound to us. To the Ancients who had a diced up goddess of reincarnation held together by the Naga (hanging out on the moon? -- Always in that circle .. maybe not the moon, maybe the Earth?) , .. it may say more than we imagine. Aya brings one into contact with the Vine of the Soul, and the "great brightly colored Serpents" -- "there" but "not there" serpents. Clearly an accessible plane of something going on with this!

7. cool

8. Those peoples who find themselves living on the 45 between the 90 degree corners (the 45 of the Ojo de Dio, and the wavey lines [of water or plasma energy] in some glyphs) .. may have a slightly different view of the world and it's workings I think. And "like the Corner of the Stage at Yonaguni" .. possibly like unto the sight of G^d. Even if the "Hat/Headdress" is ornately Mayan.

This act, in the end, gave OEdipus the eyes/(non-sighted on Earth eyes) of his mother's ear rings, rubies,(Plunged deep into his eyes, it says). Rubies for blood, and rubies are "coherent light making gem stones". (Buddha was not Buddha until his consort gave him the experience of the Sound of the Universe.) OEdipus only got the vision ... but not stated as such .. and it is, to be honest, a theory of mine, and likely not of anyone else -- that there is some kind of sightedness which goes with the "peoples of the diagonals".

The ancients were chemists and alchemist, and had good physics. They had power from crystals, and the crystal skulls (astonishingly complex) must have been grown using some advanced technology ...

So this act of incestuous marriage, (requried of the ancient houses of Sumeria for "Royal Offspring") may put one on the 45degree angle ... ?? ..give them insightful vision?? ... be worse than being cuckolded?? I could not really speak to that ~~ .. it is a bit of extrapolated conjecture on my part.

I was speaking of the men of great renoun, not the forces which are "deified" to keep them in the mind of a public going down an unknown highway.
If Tarot, and Astrology, and I Ching were not made into dark arts dabbling tools for a populace trying to come back from a world wide wipe, they likely would have been lost as Sciences as well ... and they have lots of science buried in those dark arts traditions.

I like Schwaller a lot!!
Sri Aurobindo's Secret of the Veda on the way to my library !! Thank you.


awwww ... DNA is not a buzz word to my knowledge ... but Russians did use EM to rewrite the eggs of frogs, into eggs of salamanders (which hatched!!) .. I don't know if they were capapble of reproduction.

9. awwwe/squared ... You would deprive us of all his critical insights .. his breadth of vision?

10. Agreed, but he made it a thoroughly researched and thought out item. Not just a distant memory in a myth ... he collated lots of data! Collated Well!! Exodus to Arthur is on the track as well, and with a wide angle lens, but the collation/presentation needs a bit of polish! I like this book as well, but feel like I need to database it.


Regarding the cyclical nature of the universe:
...
Could our past issues have anything to do with the 19.4 degrees of latitude of the Galaxy? ... That energy zone of all spheres in Rotation? Or is that the "turn around point" for solids in the galaxy. I am unsure where to look for this data.

Thanks for the links and the books!!

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Sally,
You wrote:

This makes great sense if Athena is also Coatlique!! Both had Serptnets for skirts, and aegis (shield).

Athene had a skirt of snakes? Athene is not going to be much of a mother-goddess seeing as how she is a maiden.

You asked:

How was Typhon Born of Earth?

and

You think Thphon was born of Earth? And could you provide a background for that?

Hesiod, Theogony 820 ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) :
"Now after Zeus had driven the Titanes out of heaven, gigantic Gaia (Earth), in love with Tartaros (the Pit), by means of golden Aphrodite, bore the youngest of her children, Typhoeus."

http://www.theoi.com/Gigante/Typhoeus.html

Nonnus' Dionysiaca:
Book 1: http://www.theoi.com/Text/NonnusDionysiaca1.html
Book 2: http://www.theoi.com/Text/NonnusDionysiaca2.html

5. You think not this:??

Was Typhon really an expulsion product? .. OR ... was it part of the old 5th planet (which I will call Ceres)?
Saturn coming to the system, or something passing through the system may have caused the retrograde orbits, and the "Asteroid Belt" ... The total annihilation of Ceres, may have provided the massive expanded form of Typhon .. the extra water, the "naptha" (? cold simi-liquid methane --easily captured by larger bodies, from a water rich world?); could Typhon have been pieces and parts of Ceres?

Most definitely!!!

Was Zeus the progenitor of the South American Races (while Africa was being mined for Gold and Diamonds? Was Zeus the builder of Teotehuacan (where "the rod" sank into the ground), ultimately the father of Horus/Quetzalcoatl, using his daughter Coatlique/Athena as the Woman/Goddess Of the people? Was Double Coyote, a kindred soul of Anubus?

Neither Zeus nor any other deity is a person. They are cosmic principles or forces etc.

Athena .. Thigh Born .. Strange as it may sound to us. To the Ancients who had a diced up goddess of reincarnation held together by the Naga (hanging out on the moon? -- Always in that circle .. maybe not the moon, maybe the Earth?) , .. it may say more than we imagine. Aya brings one into contact with the Vine of the Soul, and the "great brightly colored Serpents" -- "there" but "not there" serpents. Clearly an accessible plane of something going on with this!

I think you are confusing Athene with Dionysus, it was he who was born out of Zeus thigh. As to the rest of that quote I haven't a clue what you are talking about. Perhaps if you wrote in full sentences and addressed one topic at a time....?

I like Schwaller a lot!!
Sri Aurobindo's Secret of the Veda on the way to my library !! Thank you.

What Schwaller books have you read? I wouldn't get your hopes up too high with the Aurobindo book, the word 'secret' in the title isn't used in the sense which you probably imagine. It is a work of great erudition by a major intellect, not the latest wing-ding exicting theory of the type you appear to favour.

[WCSally]

Could this be a map of the collision course of Typhon?

[[This site is awesome, esp. if you are a prime number addict, with a sacred curves bent. --or like Giza harmonics.]]http://www.humanresonance.org

It is considered a very ancient artifact, the language of the discovery site being (proto-)Sanskrit.

They are in awe of the technology (far in advance of us), and they wonder if this is a meditation device or a model to galactic center.

I wonder if it is a model of the path of the impacter which demolished Ceres, and may have given us Venus, or may have gone somewhere else?

Could it have been the course of Typhon? If Typhon really was The Deliverance of the Hebrews by a Powerful Hand ... this might be some of the foreknowledge of the event! And clearly Moses knew.

It seems to model the orbits of the inner planets .. with an additional set of curves in a certain space on the map.
Fluorescing in UV:
Why are the arcs of the third track in a totally different color? (greenish) ... and the tracks of the second, fourth and fifth darker, while the extra "foreign" arcs are bright?
It seems the foreign object is oblique to the ecliptic!! -- only having an orbital path in part of the solar system ... if these are maps of the solar system.

The ORANGE seems to imply the path of the "foreign" object ... and the third diagram still showing the force from the outside right toward the edges of the lines .. seems to indicate a trajectory into the sun. It is round and concave, the others are hexagons and beveled.
http://www.humanresonance.org/mana.html

[davesmith_au]

Hi Sally,
Velikovsky needs no introduction here, the site is run by his disciples.
And, IMVHO, Velikovsky wouldn't know Truth if he stepped in it up his waist.

Such characterization of those who run this site shows, IMNSHO just whom wouldn't know Truth if it bit him on the behind...

Acknowledging someone's prior research and ideas (whether correct or not) is a far cry from discipleship. In this matter, you're so far off the mark you're not even wrong.

Cheers, Dave.

[WCSally]

Back to you Grey Cloud:

ATHENA:
Athena was born of Zeus' thigh, was a warriour goddess and was able to beat Aries. In fact she was called upon when people could not best Aries. No, not to be more than a maiden, (but still only of 1 axis) ... a goddess .. not a mortal, but they can have their issues. For a Goddess it can be worse than being "a southern virgin (~~only as long as she can out run her brothers)".

I think it is likely why so many Greek Heroines did "the transform" rather than be seduced by men.


TYPHON the COMET: or TYPHON the GREEK Giant?
This makes Typhon only a transient body, unless you allow that it was planet Venus?


So Typhon and Enkilados are Hundred hand Storm Giants ..
Typhon being thigh deep in the work.
And his legs being? ... Naga? ... curiouser and curiouser!!
And the agent of this love was Aphrodite the foam born? She was the means, the manifestation?
And could she be the goddess on the lid of the coffin of Pacal, who is holding the flower with the stamen which looks like corn? The one who is In the Mouth of the God of the present age, with water flowing around her, and the heads of the gods of the past ages under him (Maurice Cotterell) http://www.mauricecotterell.com/
And so The (possible) Son/SUN (Obsession of the Aztec Priesthood) makes it across the sky, and is born as planet Venus? Which inscribes a pentagram in the heavens.

I feel like the person who could not pronounce Phoenix (Pa Ho Nix) .. in the Air Line commercial we had over here some time back. Hearing the word FeeNix .. ?? .. *seems he dies laughing*

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It makes sense that goddess "Gaia" was in love with her shieldman.

This does not prove that Gaia and Ceres were not one in the same, however. Or this Gaia may have been MU/Lemuria?

One might have to look back into the entymology of names in South America for the name of the trident holding female over the dolphin, behind the Boat of Hundreds of Years :: http://wcsallysally.deviantart.com/art/ ... -102899497
That Trident maybe meaning .. my world blew up, help! My race are now rootless? ~as opposed to the double trident.

This is my scraps area (not art-ish things which I wish to maintain) .. DA has good qualtiy file maintenance. There is some here on the Orion Nebula .. and a maybe correlation with Nazca.
Click Image for larger image .. Click Pink TV for full size download.

http://wcsallysally.deviantart.com/art/ ... -140119675
Also Orion as the great man .. a principle of fecundity ...
http://wcsallysally.deviantart.com/art/ ... -124531486
Orion and Horus:
http://wcsallysally.deviantart.com/art/ ... -133321325


Someone .. a group of someones ... went in search of a place to build, and where the rod sank into the ground there they made Teotehuacan. (Not exactly on the money I suspect, but a description which someone wanted to hand down to posterity.)

To the Ancients who had a diced up goddess of reincarnation held together by the Naga (hanging out on the moon? -- Always in that circle .. maybe not the moon, maybe the Earth?) , .. it may say more than we imagine.

The Aztec Goddess was in pieces, all her limbs secured by animal heads or serpents or Naga. Her son may be the one who had to make it "across the sky" ... but that I have not found "stated" per se.
http://www.crystalinks.com/aztecgods.html FIND Aztec Moon Goddess

Ometeotl may be the one I keep calling Zeus.

Coyolxauhqui is the Aztec Moon goddess. Her name means "Woman With Copper Bells on Her Cheeks", and when the moon rises full and red you can still see them.

Her mother, Coatlicue (whom I think is Athena, ~reborn with a Shout! --as all Maya children were), became magically pregnant when a crown of feathers fell in Her lap. [[?storm giant work?]]

Believing Her family had been dishonoured, the angry (daughter) Coyolxauhqui meant to kill Her; but the child Huitzilopochtli, whose name means "Hummingbird on the Left" (the south, i.e. the Sun), springing from the womb fully armored, defended Their mother and killed Coyolxauhqui instead. He cut off her head and flung it into the sky, where it became the Moon.

The combat between Coyolxauhqui the Moon and Huitzilopochtli the Sun represents the alternation of day and night.

http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/coyolxauhqui.html

Huitzilopochtli:: Made half of the sun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huitzilopochtli

Dionysus?
Dionysus? the twice born god of WINE? .. I think you are confusing Wine and Corn Mash.
Wine for the Med, Corn for the Southern Americans. And tomatos and peppers and squash.

I read the tiny Schawaller book which said: ... Language is a construct .. you must see past it, or you will not see properly. ... True, and Champollion struggled so hard to bring Heiroglyphs to life for us, yet in doing it from Demotic, he dragged the veil of the mundane over the sacred ... yet again.

Yes, I speak Schwaller perspective. It is a later day thing, and when I look at the heiroglyphs ... they almost talk back .. but not quite. ... Still ... I would not do that thing done below the GP, where you look at a wall in front of you and let your brain merge the Right side peripheral vision to the Left side peripheral vision to get the message ... I would wash out of priest school right there.

The ancient world had it's dangers too, today you only have to worry about wierd optometrists!!

If you read enough of those Mayan Codex-es ... you will almost speak hieroglyphs as well!
They may look a bit like comics ... but they were accurate I suspect. Perhaps too accurate for Spaniards who might feel uneasy with such openness. Sad, life and time are such transient things.

Thank you again for links ... I will not have to sit in Reference!
I am going to get a notebook and a scanning pen ... and hid in the stacks, and then scan my stuff and bring it home to read! .. I wonder what they will think of that? .. I can see Librarian Scowl now ... who me?
The first book of ____starts with a B .. Hieroglyphs in Two Volumes .. is in Reference .. I worry I will never get through it.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Sally,
Where exactly are you getting this from:

Athena was born of Zeus' thigh

[WCSally]

Hi Sally,
Where exactly are you getting this from:

Athena was born of Zeus' thigh

Somewhere between Jr. High, and the end of the Freshman year. It is a memory item, but I am certain I read it, for school somewhere. It was the dogma of the day, if it is different now, I did not know it had changed.