what is charge?

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Re: What is Charge?

Unread postby Excal » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:13 pm

Hi hertz,

It was that article that piqued my interest initially. However, the link to the Ralph Sansbury paper in reference 18 is broken.

Since then, however, I have located the article. It's at:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/news96_f.html

My question is, how, or by what mechanism, are the charges elongated to form the dipoles in the nuclei?

Hopefully, I can find an answer in the paper.
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Re: What is Charge?

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:20 pm

Mods,

You might merge this thread with the original " What is Charge" thread
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=607&start=75
to facilitate third party searches.

thanks,
simpleton
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Re: What is Charge?

Unread postby Excal » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:37 pm

Hi Simpleton,

I would be happy to do that, if I knew how.

Oops - I see that that suggestion was directed to the moderators.

Sorry.
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Re: What is Charge?

Unread postby tayga » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:50 pm

Excal wrote:I was unaware of Johnson's work. So far as I can see at this point, it is very interesting, especially in light of Le Cornec's work with the ionization energies of the periodic table. He found that the ratio of the square roots of the energies with the square root of the H ionization energy, are linear and cannot be explained by QM (see here.)


Yes, that's pretty much where Carl is getting to now. A nice convergence from different approaches.

I have adopted the nuclear structure consisting of He building blocks that my friends Montgomery and Jeffrey developed a few years back.


As above. I'll have to let Carl know that he's in good company!

What I'm interested in learning from this forum is how these oscillations might be deformed into oblate or prolate ellipsoids, giving rise to the electric dipoles that generate gravity in the EU, if I understand correctly.


Here's a Ralph Sansbury paper on magnetism. It talks about production of dipoles in electrons and might go some way to answering your question.

http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/abstracts/a ... s_5429.pdf
tayga


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

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Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
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Re: What is Charge?

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:04 pm

Excal wrote:
I was happy to notice that junglelord brought up the fundamental paradox of charge defined as a point particle. We should never allow this point to slip into the background: a point by definition is zero dimensional and thus cannot be charged, since the vanishingly small radius of the electron would require the non-electrical binding force (the so-called "Poincare stresses" that Feynman amusingly characterized as rubber-bands) to keep the force formula from exploding it to smithereens.


After you get through Sanbury's excellent expositions on concept and appearance of polarity, my humble suggestion would be to go back to page 8,
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=607&start=105
especially the comments of StevenO and Millennium, for resolution.

welcometot'bolts,
s
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Re: What is Charge?

Unread postby Excal » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:59 pm

Ok, if charge is due to moving dipole, and the dipole is due to elongation of a sphere, and the elongation of the sphere is due to the big bang, isn't this illogical, since there is no big bang in the EU?
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Re: what is charge?

Unread postby Influx » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:54 am

by Alphane » Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 pm

What is charge?


A force field. :?
Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.
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Re: what is charge?

Unread postby mjv1121 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:10 pm

What do we know about "charge"?

Several factoids:
1) Electrons have charge
2) Protons have charge
3) Electron-Electron interactions and Proton-Proton interactions both produce an obvious repulsion
4) Electron-Proton interactions appear to be an attraction (although atoms aren't sure either way)
5) Charge acts at a distance

Number 5 is the big clue. Charge acts at a distance - so it is an emergent property.

Therefore, charge has to be an emission of smaller particles, which due to the constant nature of the charge, must be supplied by a material field of those smaller particles.
or
The only other physically possible explanation is that the charged particles are immersed in an aethereal material field of fully contacted smaller particles that acts as a pressure field that transmits a "signal" caused by the operation/activity of the larger particles. This might be analogous to an ocean, so that the "charge" is the emission of vibration/sound/a-turbulence-current/?. I have included this second field option, but I struggle to see that it can work - not to mention the need to account for gravity and light/photons (but this may be a limitation of my ability to visualise).

In either scenario it can easily be seen that the Electron-Proton attraction is actually a reduced repulsion. An electron will much more easily repulse at high surface area, low mass electron than a low surface area, high mass proton. The nature of Proton-Proton repulsion is described by the strong nuclear force. Gravity initially provides an attraction, but as the protons are forced close to each other, their charge emissions feed each other. That is, each proton receives an increased number of particles, those from the field and also those of the emission from the other advancing proton. The affect is that of a positive feedback loop, which increases the charge emission of each proton.

An electron, on the other hand, represents an easier target for a proton to repulse, but the gravitational attraction between the two is still much greater than between two electrons. So a proton and an electron able to maintain a distance between each other whilst balancing "attractive" gravity and repulsive charge.

Q: What is charge?
A: It is a mechanical emission of force transmitted via an aethereal field of extremely small particles.

Michael
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Re: what is charge?

Unread postby tayga » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:48 pm

mjv1121 wrote:Charge acts at a distance - so it is an emergent property.

Therefore, charge has to be an emission of smaller particles


What justification do you have for choosing to posit emission rather than a communicating ether?
tayga


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
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Re: what is charge?

Unread postby mjv1121 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:37 am

tayga,

What justification do you have for choosing to posit emission rather than a communicating ether?


Firstly, a collisional aether works very well in answering all the questions we ask of the universe (this side of "creation" at least).

Secondly, I have a hard time visualising how a communicating aether can explain all phenomena simultaneously. This may be a personal limitation of mine or it may be that I see clearly enough to rule it out as a possibility.

I consider both aethers to be emissive. One is separate travelling particles, the other is an emission of forces via the aether, but one may choose to describe it as pressure rather than emission.

Do you sit in either camp or do you have an alternative suggestion?

Michael
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Re: what is charge?

Unread postby RobertFritzius » Mon May 28, 2018 4:23 pm

RobertFritzius wrote:Here's a link to my version of what charge is.

Emission-Absorption-Scattering Sub-quantum Physics
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/eas.htm

Bob Fritzius

This URL has been changed to http://www.shadetreephysics.com/eas.htm
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