Planetary orbits and spins

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Mon May 11, 2009 1:40 pm

-The Allais effect has been tested in experiments during other eclipses, and some experiments have failed to confirm the results while others have confirmed. Here is a Nasa [url2=http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlin ... ug99_1.htm]summary[/url2] of the various tests of the effect, note that the confirmations outnumber the non confirmations.

-The effect was confirmed again during a 1999 eclipse:
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlin ... ug99_1.htm
The authors of that report come up with a non gravity explanation for the effect:
An eclipse-effect on a Foucault pendulum can then be explained as air drag modulation caused by the atmospheric pressure modulations due to the moon's shadow.
I think that this could be tested, perhaps by keeping some type of gravimeter at a controlled constant pressure, or in a vacuum?
Some more conventional (no unusual physics) explanations:
http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/black ... /tvanf.pdf
http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/black ... ishnan.pdf
http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/black ... ymbeke.pdf

-However this report, raises the same questions again, concluding that the issue is still unresolved:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0408/0408023.pdf
Although, despite all proposed conventional explanations fail to explain the
observations either qualitatively or quantitatively, it is still possible that the reported
anomalies will turn out to be due to a combination of some of these effects and
instrumental errors. And, of course, there may be yet unidentified conventional causes
which play a role. The judgement of some of the experimental results is hampered by
the lack of a statistical analysis and/or data of sufficient length. Nevertheless, there exist
some strong data which cannot be easily explained away.
Therefore, further experiments during a few solar eclipses are justified.

highlight added
also, the results of a 2004 eclipse experiment indicate that the effect was detected in and area where the eclipse was not even visible:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Gwy ... clnk&gl=us :
These effects appeared even in this equatorial zone (Borneo) in which the solar eclipse was not itself visible. This suggests that during a solar eclipse gravitational perturbations can be detected all over the Earth's surface. We recommend that, during future eclipses, simultaneous experiments should be conducted at different widely-spaced locations.
highlight added
and
The shocking conclusion is that either the well-known formula for the period of oscillation of a pendulum is invalid during an eclipse, or that unknown aspects of the gravitational force are manifested when planetary bodies are in alignment with the observer.
The Allais effect does seems to be real, ie a pendulum's movement is altered during an eclipse. This could have some important theoretical implications relevant to the EU if it is shown to actually be measuring a fluctuation in G, and is not the result of an unforseen, but more mundane influence (such as the changes in atmospheric pressure, thermal instabilities, and so on) or instrumental and measurement errors.
Perhaps there is an electrical explanation with out a variation in gravity?
How does the EU explain this effect?
Is it even a real phenomenon or just a mistake of instrumentation or measurement?
Is the jury still out on this one?
Any thoughts or comments?

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by redeye » Tue May 12, 2009 5:17 am

The shocking conclusion is that either the well-known formula for the period of oscillation of a pendulum is invalid during an eclipse, or that unknown aspects of the gravitational force are manifested when planetary bodies are in alignment with the observer.
I wonder if the pendulum effect is reversed, on the moon, during a Solar eclipse?

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Tue May 12, 2009 7:18 am

hi redeye,
I wonder if the pendulum effect is reversed, on the moon, during a Solar eclipse?
That would be an interesting experiment, both at lunar and solar eclipses. I don't know if the practicalities (costs) and logistics are within reach, or if the ptb think this is worth exploring.
How about a test being performed on Earth during a lunar eclipse?
Come to think of it there are lot of good ideas for experiments with a pendulum, or other gravimetric devices.

also note:
In the 19th C it was noted that pendulums next to a mountain (massif) are not deflected as predicted by calculations based on the understanding of gravitation, scientists devised the theory of isostasy as an explanation.
George Airy explained the small deflection of the pendulum as
“It will be remarked that that the disturbance (gravity anomaly) depends on two actions; the positive attraction produced by the elevated table land; and the diminution of attraction, or negative attraction, produced by the substitution of a certain volume of light crust for heavy lava”
http://www-geo.phys.ualberta.ca/~unswor ... 8-2005.pdf
Isostasy assumes that mountains are "floating" on the crust much like an iceberg in the ocean, this could account for the anomalous pendulum results. Also, plate tectonics introduces the downward movement of colliding plates as an explanation.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by mharratsc » Tue May 12, 2009 8:18 am

*** Disclaimer- non-scientist brain at work! ***

Isn't 'weight' a measurement of gravity? Has anyone simply used a sensitive pressure scale during an eclipse to see if there is an increase or decrease of gravitational attraction on a calibrated weight? o.O

Edit: I just remembered that someone had mentioned that there might be a change in atmospheric pressure that could skew this sort of measurement. But heck- a small 1 kg weight on top of a digital scale inside a small vacuum chamber would give you a solid result on something like that, wouldn't it?
Mike H.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Tue May 12, 2009 9:34 am

hi mharratsc,
Isn't 'weight' a measurement of gravity? Has anyone simply used a sensitive pressure scale during an eclipse to see if there is an increase or decrease of gravitational attraction on a calibrated weight?
[url2=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravimetry ... s_measured]Gravimetry[/url2]:
Many weighing scales may be regarded as simple gravimeters.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by redeye » Tue May 12, 2009 10:39 am

That would be an interesting experiment, both at lunar and solar eclipses. I don't know if the practicalities (costs) and logistics are within reach, or if the ptb think this is worth exploring.
How about a test being performed on Earth during a lunar eclipse?
Come to think of it there are lot of good ideas for experiments with a pendulum, or other gravimetric devices.
Wouldn't a gyroscope show similar effects to a pendulum. Space probes already have stuff like that, although the effect would be based on the gravity produced by the probe, perhaps a device on the moon during a Lunar eclipse of the Sun by the Earth, if you know what I mean. I like the idea with the weights as a way to correlate the results with the pendulum through gravity. I hate the way the ptb wrote off the Moon after the Apollo missions. It's so much more interesting than Mars (although, not that much easier to get to) especially in terms of it's effects on the Earth and vice versa.
Isostasy assumes that mountains are "floating" on the crust much like an iceberg in the ocean, this could account for the anomalous pendulum results. Also, plate tectonics introduces the downward movement of colliding plates as an explanation.
The information returned from seismic studies show that there isn't enough molten material, below the surface of the Earth, to allow the plates to float around and the continental plates descend deep into the lithosphere. The continental drift theory is deader than...well, accretion theory.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Tue May 12, 2009 11:01 am

redeye wrote:The information returned from seismic studies show that there isn't enough molten material, below the surface of the Earth, to allow the plates to float around and the continental plates descend deep into the lithosphere. The continental drift theory is deader than...well, accretion theory.
If that is so, then the anomalous results for a pendulums' deflection near massifs requires another explanation :shock:

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by mharratsc » Tue May 12, 2009 12:15 pm

Just curious... what do they make these snazzy pendulums out of?

All the ones I've seen seem to be steel. Has anyone ever tried the experiment with a non-ferrous pendulum?

And hey Nick-

Have you heard of any experiments that used 'gravimeters' of some kind vs pendulums during alignments/eclipses? If so- did anything interesting result from it?

Mike H.
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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Wed May 13, 2009 4:36 pm

hi Mike H,
*** Disclaimer- non-scientist brain at work! ***
We are all just trying to learn something. That's why we are here 8-)
Just curious... what do they make these snazzy pendulums out of?
Here is a link to an article by Allais that I referred to in the original post but did not have a link at the time. It has pictures as well as detailed descriptions of how his experiment was done:
[url2=http://allais.maurice.free.fr/English/media10-1.htm]Should the Laws of Gravitation Be Reconsidered[/url2]?
And hey Nick-

Have you heard of any experiments that used 'gravimeters' of some kind vs pendulums during alignments/eclipses? If so- did anything interesting result from it?
Yes I think that all sorts of gravimeters and different types of pendulums have been tried, with varied results.
Here is an article of experiments done with gravimeters that had inconclusive results:
http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/black ... ymbeke.pdf

However, now mainstream seems to have acknowledged that the effect exists and is scrambling for "conventional" explanations, that is, changes in atmospheric pressure, temperature, vibrations, etc.
I think that this will get more and more attention, as well as some, possibly, exotic explanations.
Here is 2004 report in which the author is desperately grasping for a conventional explanation (or some combination of conventional explanations.) He considers that the effect may be real, and more testing needs to be done, as no one conventional explanation is adequate.
http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0408/0408023.pdf
In recent years there has been a renewed interest in reports about anomalies during
solar eclipses. Realizing that our understanding of gravity at galactic scales may be
insufficient (giving rise to theories like MOND [Mil83, SanM02]), the observation of an
anomalous acceleration on spacecrafts in the solar system (the Pioneer Anomaly
[AndL02]), anomalous velocity increases of spacecrafts during Earth flybys [AntG98,
AndW00, NieT04] and even discussions about whether we understand gravity at
laboratory scale [MbeL02, Mel99, GerG02] may have contributed to this renewed
interest.
[...]
The judgement of some of the experimental results is hampered by
the lack of a statistical analysis and/or data of sufficient length. Nevertheless, there exist
some strong data which cannot be easily explained away
.
Therefore, further experiments during a few solar eclipses are justified.
Measurements with a single device, however, seem to add little to the current situation.
Combined measurements of several pendula and gravimeters together with monitoring
of a variety of environmental parameters like seismic activity, ground tilt, atmospheric
pressure, temperature, ground water level, etc. are necessary.

highlights added

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by biknewb » Sun May 17, 2009 2:55 pm

I see lots of sensible suggestions are being made for tests and experiments. However, the 1999 eclipse has thoroughly been measured already. See the link Nick provided: http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlin ... ug99_1.htm
For the upcoming eclipse, the NASA/Marshall Space Sciences Lab is coordinating an internet and video collaboration between observatories and universities to test the Allais effect. Participants on 4 continents (Central Europe, North America, Middle Asia, and Australasia), are from at least 7 countries (US, Austria, Germany, Italy, Australia, 4 sites in the United Arab Emirates, and England) and 11 cities (Huntsville, AL, Indianapolis, Louisville, Denver, Boulder, Richmond, Vienna, Greifswald, Trento, Abu Dabi, and Sydney).
So lots of data have been recorded in 1999, but where are the results? It is almost ten years now since analysis must have started. Has anyone seen any result of this world wide science project?
Last edited by biknewb on Sun May 17, 2009 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by biknewb » Sun May 17, 2009 3:08 pm

Hey, in answer to my own question, I just saw this paper from an earlier post is actually based on the 1999 eclipse measurements.
http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/black ... ymbeke.pdf

That is something. But the idea was to have the ability to study the Allais effect through all kinds of instruments simultaneously. And to draw conclusions from the total. Has someone seen anything like that?

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Mon May 18, 2009 9:27 am

hi biknewb,
But the idea was to have the ability to study the Allais effect through all kinds of instruments simultaneously. And to draw conclusions from the total. Has someone seen anything like that?
It does seem like this is something "unpleasant" for mainstream theorists. Hopefully, following the wisdom that "anomalies are the key to discovery" there will be further investigation.
So lots of data have been recorded in 1999, but where are the results? It is almost ten years now since analysis must have started.
Apparently the wheels of science turn slowly. Especially when one considers that Allais' first experiments were done in the early 1950's, and his results were summarily dismissed for decades, despite the subsequent confirmation by other researchers. Perhaps this is because he was an outsider to the disciplines of Physics and Astronomy, and/or, the results were so far off from the expectations of the prevailing paradigm that nobody in influential positions took it seriously.

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by biknewb » Mon May 18, 2009 12:41 pm

Hi Nick

Just finished reading the papers you linked to. I like the report of Chris P. Duif. He gives a nice summary of the efforts of others.

One electric explanation might be a tilt effect, caused by electric contraction or expansion of the local crust. The tilt effect has no effect on gravimeters, only on pendulums. It also accounts for the observation of a change just before 1st contact, no change during totality, and a reverse change later.
There's another electric possibility of a temporary change in Earth' speed of rotation. But this effect would be noticeable world wide.

Just trying to use imagination. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by nick c » Mon May 18, 2009 3:57 pm

biknewb,
I like the report of Chris P. Duif. He gives a nice summary of the efforts of others.
Yes, I like that one too, and it is fairly recent.
There's another electric possibility of a temporary change in Earth' speed of rotation. But this effect would be noticeable world wide.
highlight added
I remember reading (source?) somewhere that the Earth's rotation has slowed during solar flares, then returned to the original rate. Certainly this would require some sort of electrical explanation, and would have an effect on a pendulum.
And note this report, to which I linked earlier in the thread:
These effects appeared even in this equatorial zone (Borneo) in which the solar eclipse was not itself visible. This suggests that during a solar eclipse gravitational perturbations can be detected all over the Earth's surface.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Gwy ... clnk&gl=us
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Re: The Allais Effect in the Electric Universe?

Unread post by biknewb » Tue May 19, 2009 1:18 am

nick c wrote: I remember reading (source?) somewhere that the Earth's rotation has slowed during solar flares, then returned to the original rate. Certainly this would require some sort of electrical explanation, and would have an effect on a pendulum.
Source may be: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1961SvA.....5..406V or http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1976SvA....19..665S

The more details I read about Allais' experiments, the more strange the results are becoming. Not only during eclipses his pendulum shows deviations, its movements are weird all the time. What could cause a disturbance with a periodicity of 24 hours 50 minutes?

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