Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Kapriel » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:14 pm

Is the duning limited to Venusian material? I ask this because most mountains are layered with a variety of rock types, all different chemistries.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Kapriel » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:30 pm

Lloyd I think it's clear that Mel and Michael have worked together on this. Mel is a bit more in the limelight, that's all.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:57 pm

Hola Kapriel: I have many more questions than answers. When i read WiC there are events that could cause flooding and excavation during the events associated with Mars. On the other hand, there is no emphasis on dust and sand in the air. During the events associated with Venus on the other hand, dust and sand are prominent. This leads me to believe that the events that produced mountains was during the Plagues of Egypt. It took 25 years for the Sun to return to normal. So 3 years after the Plagues might have still been a duning time. Or not.
So the top layers, the Navajo Sandstone could be the end of Venus or the beginning of Mars. My bet is Venus.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby allynh » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:15 am

The mountains here in New Mexico are classic slip face the way the Adams videos show. You can see the same structure in the "backbones" of the various continents. The Sandias rise shear on one side and are sloped on the other. The west face rises a mile above the valley. The Sangre De Cristos are the same. We have the Ortiz mountains sitting between the Sandias and Sangre De Cristos that were probably carved and dumped there the way you talk about dunes.

The local Tewa indians talk of Thunderbird dancing in the area and the various sacred mountains popped into view, so I suspect that a combination of events build mountains; each will have to be looked at case by case.

I'm going to have to watch this thread, because the concept of "mountains as dunes" is one more scary idea that had not occurred to me. Thanks...

BTW, to load pictures you need to size them to fit the 45k limit. One easy way is to open each picture in whatever viewer your computer has, and "save as" jpg. Most systems will tell you the size of the file as you change the "quality".

Then look at the bottom of the form where you create a post, and you will notice the tab "upload attachment". Click on that and experiment a bit. Always "preview" your post to see how it looks, and the system will tell you what doesn't work.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:51 am

This is a good example. It's just East of Death Valley. It seems to have grown from left to right. If you pick a layer and subtract everything to the right you get an idea of how it looked while growing.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 8&t=p&z=14
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:10 am

This is West of Death Valley. The rock in both photos is metamorphic i believe.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 4&t=p&z=12
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I Ching #49 The Image
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:25 am

This is Frenchmen Mountain.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 7&t=p&z=13
I'm looking North from the bottom of the map
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:43 pm

This is the Eest side or Slip Face of Frenchmen Mountain, from where i'm staying.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:25 pm

* Michael, you haven't answered my question yet, have you? If dunes require water-saturated sand, or sediment, why would there be dunes on Titan http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/arch09/090828fingerprint.htm and Venus http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050202venusscars.htm, places where there is no known water and likely never has been? The dunes described on Venus seem to be only those at the bottoms of rilles, or canyons.
* Comparing your photo with the geologic cross-section of Frenchman Mtn, it looks like sediment was laid down fairly horizontally, then horizontal geologic forces broke up several blocks, which then fell over halfway to one side, with Frenchman Mtn being one of the blocks that listed sideways. So I don't see a likely flaw with the cross-section diagram and don't see dune formation.
Image
Image
* If the Ipuwer document was contemporaneous with the Exodus, that event could have resulted from the Santorini eruption.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:41 pm

Hello again Lloyd: I believe i said the Great Sand Dune National Monument is saturated. I never mentioned Titan or Venus. I never implied ALL dunes are saturated. I didn't say dunes require water. I have no idea about the dunes in the rest of the Solar System. I haven't been to Titan or Venus. Why do you put words in my mouth i never uttered? I mentioned the water because it makes some of the dunes here on Earth more conductive. Dry dunes don't seem like a problem. I feel like i'm dealing with an angry adversarial lawyer. Please stop.
Concerning the chart of Frenchmen, if i came up with a model that required a mountain to move 50 miles to the West to reconcile the problem of the stratification, people would think i was nuts. When you thought i had a dune traveling 50 miles you seemed to object.'"It doesn't look like a sand dune that moved 50 miles across a plain". Your words. Does it look like a mountain that moved 50 miles across a plain?
On the leeward side of a dune the layers are flat. The layers in Frenchmen are a mixture of underwater sediment and dunes. If they folded up 50 degrees on the west, the layers that are the result of duning would not be a flat layer. They would be a triangle shape with a slip face. The chart looks like something from Alice in Wonderland.
ommmmmm
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby moses » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:43 am

Does it look like a mountain that moved 50 miles across a plain?
starbiter

Yes.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:37 pm

* Michael, I was not angry with you. Sheesh! I did not put any words in your mouth, so by saying I did, you're putting words in my mouth. What's wrong if I don't see the picture you're describing and if I tell you I don't see it? If you can't show that there's anything major wrong with the geologic cross-section of Frenchman Mtn above, I'm inclined to suppose it's accurate. It sounded before like you were suggesting that dunes are formed by water. My questions to you were to determine if that's what you meant to suggest. How am I supposed to find out what you mean, if I don't ask? If you think some dunes are formed with water and some not, do you have an idea how to determine which is which? That's one of the things I was asking. If you don't enjoy my discussion, I'll just forget this.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:27 pm

Hello Lloyd: If Dunes were formed during the Plagues of Egypt then they would probably be saturated due to the flooding from the change in the rotation of the Earth and increased precipitation due to planetary heating. I didn't mention it but White Sands is also moist. When people camp out on White Sands they wake up wet. I'd like to know about the rest of the dunes on Earth and in time i might. My point in the last message was that i never implied anything about dunes requiring water to form. I said that dunes hold water because of White Sands and SDMN. The next thing l know i have to defend dunes on Venus and Titan. I don't think that follows.
This is not my medium. I'm a photographer, not a writer. This process is like having my pants pulled down, in front of the World.
The reason i mentioned the moisture inside of the dunes is the ability of the water to conduct. This would make the conversion to rock possible. According to Redshifto the dunes on Mars don't seem to be solidified. Maybe the lack of water would account for this, if there is a lack of water.
michael
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Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Kapriel » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:07 pm

Geologists always assume sedimentary layering was accomplished when the ground was level, and later the ground was tilted. Some kinds of layers have to have been formed this way (greywacke sandstones and mudstones in general are primary examples...mud has to flow, and presumably would follow the rules of gravity). But others would not have had to have been formed while the ground was level, such as sandstones, which as Michael has explained might have been formed through the action of wind, water, and electricity.

I think one big complaint against the geologists' theory for sandstone formation is the idea that the layers had to have occurred at the surface of the Earth, and then this same ground must have been plunged 5 miles down into the ground where the heat and pressure could cause its transformation into rock, and then still later these same layers were lifted to the surface, and lastly, these same layers were tilted. That's a lot of activity, all the while keeping these layers fairly in tact.

On a side note, experiments have supposedly been performed by a Dr. Jacobs (German, I think) using electricity in a jar filled with sand. These show that after a period of time, with the current running through the sand, the sand would separate itself into layers, some layers tilting or forming rolling wave-like structures of sand, looking very like miniature versions of the pictures Michael has above. There is probably something to all of this, and I think we should look into it. The problem is the youtubes I've seen on Dr.Jacob's experiment have all been in German or some other language I don't understand, and all attempts I am aware of to replicate his results independently have failed.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:36 pm

* Do things grow on White Sands, if it's moist? If not, do you know why not?
* Can you give a link to where Redshift says Mars dunes aren't solidified? Or do you know what evidence they have for that? What I've read on the TB TPODs is that the dunes there don't seem to change shape over time. I don't know how many Mars dunes they were referring to.
* If paint can be applied electrically to cars etc without the surfaces being level, then I suppose the same could apply to formation of sandstone electrically, but the geologic cross-section above indicates that Frenchman Mtn and Lake Mead mountains used to be continuous with the horizontal Colorado Plateau on their right [which I think is east], because they have the same patterns of strata.
* One of our members is Zane Parker and he has done some similar interesting experiments with electricity on a small scale. Here's his contact info from his website: zrw07@cybertrails.com.
* Here is his webpage on sand with salt-water that was then electrified : http://www.para-az.com/salty-sand.html.
* Next is an image of the original sand on the left and electrified salt-watery sand on the right: Image
* Click on this link to see image of better solidified electrified salt-watery sand: http://www.para-az.com/dsc441s50.jpg
* Next are crater chains on a CRT: Image
* Here are electrified fiberglass spiders: Image
* I don't know if these are fiberglass: Image
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