Lightning

[jjohnson]

Very interesting subject - close to home, so to say. I viewed all the Henrik Svensmark YouTube series. It's very thoughtfully put together, and well done. They lost me when they claim that the solar system passes from spiral arm to spiral arm as it revolves around the galaxy, because I have always thought we and the spiral arms co-rotated, leaving us in the same arm all the time. So, that part is on my back burner, but the rest appears to be good science.

Basically their idea is, and they have pretty good agreement over time regarding climate, ocean temperatures, cosmic ray flux rate from iron meteorites, etc., is that cosmic rays emanating from the stars (spsecifically they say exploding stars) are modulated by the magnetic field of the Sun, and the cosmic ray flux on Earth affects the rate of lower (atmospheric) level cloud formation. The greater the sun's magnetic field activity, the fewer cosmic rays can hit the earth and cause condensation nuclei, so fewer low clouds form, causing greater heat take-up, and the Earth's climate is warmer ("hothouse conditions"). Conversely, periods of low solar magnetic field activity increases rate of cosmic ray showers in our atmosphere, leading to higher fraction of extensive cloud cover, greater albedo and cooler conditions in Earth's climate. Several hundred years ago we had a Little Ice Age, corresponding to heightened cosmic ray activity in the record. A thousand years ago the Vikings were able to map Greenland because of its lack of an ice sheet, at a time of lower cosmic ray flux, according to the video.

Another modulating mechanism proposed in this series is that when we are within an arm of stars there are more cosmic ray sources available to feed and control our climate, so we are cooler, and between arms, we would be "starved" for cosmic rays and our climate would be cooler.

Now I'm going to need some help here to expand these ideas, which seem intrinsically plausible and EU compatible. Solrey, help out here if you're interested. Questions:

1. Does our solar system stay in this arm, does it transit from arm to arm through emptier interstellar spaces, or has anyone the slightest idea? If our revolution is both E/M and gravity driven per MM's Unified Field TheorY (MMUFY) it seems to me that generally we all rotate as a solid disk together, but we've only been here in this galaxy for a blink of one revolution, so I sure can't say.

2. Ar there other, possibly time-varying cosmic ray sources besides those from distant stars? Our sun or effects within or at the heliosheath, for example.

3. How would the sun's magnetic field variations alter the flux density of cosmic rays? Are they deflected by Earth's magnetosheath more strongly when the sun's is strong? Is the Sun's electric field a part of the effect on cosmic ray's or is it simply an artifact of the E/M, one occurring with the other.

4. If the sun transits from arm to arm, how does it keep lit? Or are there possibly [weaker] currents between arms? I have seen maps of magnetic fields showing up between arms in some radio images, but do not have any idea if they represent currents whose strength could support stellar transients.

All very interesting, and another so-called "attack" on the CO2 mainstream in the global warming debate. If these ideas are correct, and the Sun continues with its lack of activity, it seems we should be predicting a net cooling period is coming up, not a heating event, even if a few hundred years of industrial activity has tipped the CO2 level steadily upward and there has been a very small but steady increase in average global temperature.

In case you think that today's O2:CO2 ratio is typical of a long, steady atmospheric composition,at least during the time that animal life has existed, geological evidence points to the contrary. A fascinating study in a book by Peter D. Ward, Out of Thin Air, Joseph Henry Press, Washington, D.C., 2006, discusses how dinosaurs' remarkably adaptable respiration system was connected to their ability to adapt to Earth's changing environment over vast stretches of time and atmospheric change. (An aspiration system bequeathed to birds, of course.) His Chapter 2 begins with a revealing graph of estimates (with error field shadings) of O2 levels over time, and the ratio of CO2 to today's value also graphed, and global extinctions marked.

The oxygen fraction of the atmosphere has varied widely over time, as has the amount of CO2. CO2 and water vapor constitute most of the residual 1% of the atmosphere after oxygen and nitrogen are subtracted. CO2 has varied to as high as 15 to 20 times greater than today,450M to 550M years ago, falling to near today's level around 300M years ago, rising abruptly to about 12 times today's level 250M years ago, and fluctuating up and down since then, to today's very low CO2 fraction. In that long period of animal life , ice ages have come and gone, continents and oceans have shifted, and climates have changed. Major extinctions have occurred during this period, and it is instructive to note that they are timed closely to periods where oxygen levels are dropping to a minimum and CO2 levels are at a periodic high, or rising. On the other hand, even the hottest periods, often tied to CO2 levels many times that (12x and higher) of today's, were never too hot to support animal life.

At today's rate of change of CO2 content, it would seem that the lesson in this book is less danger and stress on human organisms than today's global warming protagonists would have us believe. Economic and health stresses may be stressors on us, however, as our customary "icehouse" conditions change over long periods of time.

FYI, Peter Ward is a professor of biology, professor of earth and space studies, and adjunct professor of astronomy at the University of Washington (UW) in Seattle. He is a co-founder of the Institute for Astrobiology at UW and principal investigator for the UW node of the NASA Astrobiology Institute.

Let the discussion begin!

[MrAmsterdam]

Let the reading begin!

Cosmic rays in the earth's atmosphere and underground By L. I. Dorman

Book overview
This book consists of four parts. In the first part (Chapters 1-4) a full overview is given of the theoretical and experimental basis of Cosmic Ray (CR) research in the atmosphere and underground for Geophysics and Space Physics; the development of CR research and a short history of many fundamental discoveries, main properties of primary and secondary CR, methods of transformation of CR observation data in the atmosphere and underground to space, and the experimental basis of CR research underground and on the ground, on balloons and on satellites and space probes. The second part (Chapters 5-9) is devoted to the influence of atmospheric properties on CR, so called CR meteorological effects; pressure, temperature, humidity, snow, wind, gravitation, and atmospheric electric field effects. The inverse problem - the influence of CR properties on the atmosphere and atmospheric processes is considered in the third part (Chapters 10-14); influence on atmospheric, nuclear and chemical compositions, ionization and radio-wave propagation, formation of thunderstorms and lightning, clouds and climate change. The fourth part (Chapters 15-18) describes many realized and potential applications of CR research in different branches of Science and Technology; Meteorology and Aerodrome Service, Geology and Geophysical Prospecting, Hydrology and Agricultural Applications, Archaeology and Medicine, Seismology and Big Earthquakes Forecasting, Space Weather and Environment Monitoring/Forecasting. The book ends with a list providing more than 1,500 full references, a discussion on future developments and unsolved problems, as well as object and author indices. This book will be useful for experts in different branches of Science and Technology, and for students to be used as additional literature to text-books.

Limited preview - 2004 - 855 pages - Nature

http://books.google.com/books?id=mKLv68 ... q=&f=false

[MrAmsterdam]

found another report!!


Cosmic pattern to UK tree growth

"The relation of the rings to the solar cycle was much stronger than to any climatological factors"
Sigrid Dengel
University of Edinburgh

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 7/abstract

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_ne ... 311373.stm

Quote from the BBC article

"We tried to correlate the width of the rings, i.e. the growth rate, to climatological factors like temperature. We also thought it would be interesting to look for patterns related to solar activity, as a few people previously have suggested such a link," explains Ms Dengel.

"We found them. And the relation of the rings to the solar cycle was much stronger than it was to any of the climatological factors we had looked at. We were quite hesitant at first, as solar cycles have been a controversial topic in climatology."

"As for the mechanism, we are puzzled."

[jjohnson]

The tree ring : solar cycles correlation is interesting, particularly if it is a more robust correlation as implied by the article. Still not enough information, though, since I thought that the rings' light:dark sequence was annual and based on fast growth and no growth conditions - local summer:winter variations. Is there a stronger cycle impressed, such as only on the fast growth rings, which is related to the solar cycle - say 22 years or 11 years? Are there tree ring sequences which are old enough to have caught extremely quiet solar cycles such as the Maunder Minimum or Little Ice Age? And does the solar cycle cause the changes in the rings directly, or indirectly by modulating the presence or absence of cosmic rays to cause the changes in the rings? If rings respond only to the solar cycle and not to the cosmic ray cycle, then this latter may not be relevant to the discussion. However, if they respond to cosmic rays indirectly because the cosmic rays, not the sun, control the precipitation rates that support tree life, then it is a very pertinent piece of evidence. What depends on what is the mystery here - which is the most important part of the sequence of interactions? Maybe cosmic rays in the atmosphere also help create more nitrogen atoms/molecules, which then end up in the nitrogen cycle critical to plant life. Just what-iffing...

[MrAmsterdam]

Are there tree ring sequences which are old enough to have caught extremely quiet solar cycles such as the Maunder Minimum or Little Ice Age? And does the solar cycle cause the changes in the rings directly, or indirectly by modulating the presence or absence of cosmic rays to cause the changes in the rings? If rings respond only to the solar cycle and not to the cosmic ray cycle, then this latter may not be relevant to the discussion. However, if they respond to cosmic rays indirectly because the cosmic rays, not the sun, control the precipitation rates that support tree life, then it is a very pertinent piece of evidence. What depends on what is the mystery here - which is the most important part of the sequence of interactions? Maybe cosmic rays in the atmosphere also help create more nitrogen atoms/molecules, which then end up in the nitrogen cycle critical to plant life. Just what-iffing...

Those are 2 questions;
Are there any trees older then 400 or 500 years?
Yes! I know of a tree that can grow older then that;
Sequoia's ! I'm sure that vast datasets of greetings do exist already...


Suncycles and cosmic rays?
I think I read on this forum somewhere that there is link between those.
During solar storms, cosmic rays would have less effect on the atmosphere.
That needs to be confirmed, though.

In any case, we must warn Kopenhagen and call all climate scientists.
They are on the wrong track !

[MrAmsterdam]

And where I said "greetings" I mean "tree rings". the autospellchecker kicked in...sorry.
In the train I was thinking and surfing on my mobile on the way home.

Anyway, that idea of datasets of tree rings is very feasible. It would be great to give EU theory another big push in the right direction with strong historical statistics, even if it implies only a suncycle correlation.

[MrAmsterdam]

Hello all.

Cosmic radiation has been discussed here in this forum many times before.
I did not realise that rainmaking technology was already in place.
Does this electric rainmaking technology mimic the natural mechanism?

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environ ... s-blessing

[jjohnson]

But some atmospheric scientists aren't so sure the Russians aren't selling snake oil. "[Ionization] is highly unconventional and in my realm of experience, I have seen no concrete evidence published in a refereed journal, nor have I seen sufficient credible eyewitness verification that the technology works as touted," says George Bomar, the meteorologist charged by the Texas government with licensing the state's weather modification projects.

See what happens when you mix unconventional electrically-based ionization and refereed journals? See? Instant "snake oil" calling and dismissal due to lack of interest in any program in which electrical phenomena might play an effective and original rôle in events. SHAZAM! Webb County's loss is Mexico's gain!

See earlier forum subject (I've lost it) discussing electrical effects and tornadoes. There's an interesting topic! Someone here can point you right to it. Charles X, meteorologist, discuuses it with us. Well illustrated. Fascinating connections.

[Siggy_G]

Looked at "The Cloud Mystery" and it is very interesting. The question is why cosmic rays are varying and at which cycles. Agreeing with jjohnson on the statement that the Solar system is moving through the Milky way spiral arms as a separate entity seems very strange. I've heard the same thing once before, so I don't know if it is a some misconception, nor why such a statement should be plausible.

The thing is, these guys aren't aware of the Electric Sun model, nor is the model developed well enough for setting data in a different system or measured what controls the Sun's output. So they are looking for external factors for the cosmic rays cycles. Which may still be the case, but "the solar system moving in and out of the spiral arms"... hmm.

[Adolfo Giurfa]

Air Bus´fuselage is built as a CONDENSER: Aluminum on the ouside, aluminum in the inside and, in between, a dielectric composite. Flying in an airbus is flying in a "flying condenser".

[Maxwell Jennings]

I remember seeing a long exposure, panned still-photograph (moving side to side) of a lightning bolt which showed the numerous pulsations of what we see typically as one flash, spread across the frame as duplicate bolts.

Here's a video of a series of lightning strikes slowed down 300 percent, showing other odd flashes near the main bolts but distinctly different and much faster, along with the multiple strikes down the same pathways of the main bolts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nJRnwX0tY

[kiwi]

Hi

hard to comprehend 10,000 fps isnt it? Have you seen this clip Max.... at the 43-44(about) second mark during the replay you see the "bolt" enter the aircrafts nose and leave through the underside tail section , as it fades you can see a "spray" of lighting burst from above the cockpit and depart then from the bottom of the cockpit, just above the point where this "spray" starts you can see a bright "knot" also formed, the "spray" and the knot occupy the original path of the maln burst, following that is a bright flash that whites out the screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IRfbC0RHsY

[Jarvamundo]

cool.
Wow kiwi... reminds me of Dave Smith's columbia super-lightning investigations http://www.columbiadisaster.info/ particularly the lighning photo following the re-entry trail http://www.columbiadisaster.info/images/gi3.jpg

Jennings, another fav: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kI1d7DMbco

Golden ratio?

[kiwi]

reminds me of Dave Smith's columbia super-lightning investigations

cheers I only became aware of that event through the archives at H/science a few days back..... great links

heres another from ZTResearch ..... at the 34-5 second mark while the "bull's horns" are still visible coming from the middle tower, a white "ball" of light shows at the top of the furtherest tower of the group, I wonder if that may be a beacon light?...... or if not a plasma ball?, which would show a ground connection and a link to the main bolt maybe? ..... would these masts be linked via underground for the purpose of dissipating strikes?

this is the description of it below, the "glow" isnt mentioned

Code: Select all

High speed video (7,200 images per second) of upward lightning from a tower in Rapid City, South Dakota. Video captured on 6/16/08. Upward positive leaders visible with recoil leaders developing on the dimmer channels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4an99MBGk

[Aveo9]

The regularity of that main discharge in the middle of the shot in Maxwell's video (starts about 48 seconds into it) reminds me of the rapid pulses of pulsars.

Kiwi - I don't think that white ball was a beacon light. Considering the video is at 7200 fps it must have lasted for less than 0.01 of a second?