apples and apples
- woldemar
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apples and apples
What percentage of the time does 2 apples + 2 apples = 4 apples ?
steve
steve
While statistics and measurements can be misleading, mathematics itself is not subjective.
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
- bboyer
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Re: apples and apples
Probably the same percentage of time that 3 apples + 1 apple = 4 apples and 4 apples = 4 apples. Or 0 apples = 0 apples.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad
- GaryN
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Re: apples and apples
What the heck you guys smoking, and you got any to spare?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
- redeye
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Re: apples and apples
mmmmmm....apples.
Cheers!
Cheers!
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind."
Bob Marley
Bob Marley
- woldemar
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Re: apples and apples
I had hoped to engage in a serious discussion upon this important issue/concept. Perhaps then, I might get one from this question.
Can an apple ever be equal/identical to another apple, other than itself ?
steve
Can an apple ever be equal/identical to another apple, other than itself ?
steve
While statistics and measurements can be misleading, mathematics itself is not subjective.
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
- woldemar
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Re: apples and apples
Can an apple ever be equal/identical to another apple, other than itself ?
Is an apple EVER equal to itself over time ?
If an apple is on a tree...it is growing ( constantly changing.)
If an apple gets picked...it starts decaying ( reacting with the temperature changes, light changes , etc)
Or it's physical location changes - it got shipped, washed, packaged and eventually partially eaten and then the core and seeds got tossed away as garbage....or did they fall on the ground and those seeds generate a new apple tree.
Is a point ALWAYS equal to itself over time ?
steve
Is an apple EVER equal to itself over time ?
If an apple is on a tree...it is growing ( constantly changing.)
If an apple gets picked...it starts decaying ( reacting with the temperature changes, light changes , etc)
Or it's physical location changes - it got shipped, washed, packaged and eventually partially eaten and then the core and seeds got tossed away as garbage....or did they fall on the ground and those seeds generate a new apple tree.
Is a point ALWAYS equal to itself over time ?
steve
While statistics and measurements can be misleading, mathematics itself is not subjective.
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
- redeye
- Posts: 394
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- Location: Dunfermline
Re: apples and apples
I truly did not understand your initial point and meant no offense. As far as I'm aware, two things which are identical in every way can be considered to be identical as they cannot be differentiated from one another. This works in law too. There was an exceptionally talented forger who produced reproductions of famous paintings and got caught. The court found him not guilty as art experts were unable to identify the original work from the forgery.Can an apple ever be equal/identical to another apple, other than itself ?
The chances of two objects being similar right down to the atomic level (or further) would seem to be pretty slim though.
Cheers!
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind."
Bob Marley
Bob Marley
- woldemar
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Re: apples and apples
The chances of two objects being similar right down to the atomic level (or further) would seem to be pretty slim though. redeye
Thanks for your serious response. I say never.
Two objects cannot never occupy the same point in space simultaneously....be they apples or entities of dark matter, indeed any THING physical.
In contrast to a mathematical point wherein I can have as many names for that point as I desire.
These named points, all occupy that same point/location simultaneously. There is the semantic issue as to whether or not a point named Point A when coincident with point B is but one point....here I say no...it is two points assigned to the same location, not one point with two names. In any event, coincident Point A and Point B, are identical except for their names.
What do YOU think ?
steve
While statistics and measurements can be misleading, mathematics itself is not subjective.
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
-
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Re: apples and apples
only if you limit your thinking to the limitations of "spacetime"
ie there is only one apple
ie there is only one apple
- woldemar
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Re: apples and apples
This is not about space-time (yet). Please stay with my questions/thread.only if you limit your thinking to the limitations of "spacetime" flyingcloud
Why bring up this impossible scenario ? There have been apples for centuries. Also, minute to minute your apple decomposes....did you not just read that below?ie there is only one apple flyingcloud
steve
While statistics and measurements can be misleading, mathematics itself is not subjective.
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
-
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- Location: Honey Brook
Re: apples and apples
you mentioned point (space), in time
limit your own mind, not mine
sorry it's YOUR game have fun
limit your own mind, not mine
sorry it's YOUR game have fun
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Re: apples and apples
Mathematics is a language, and deals with semantics and logic. It is a discipline. It can describe both reality and fantasy.
Physics is about understanding reality. However, reality will continue in spite what is understood or not,about it.
Physics is about understanding reality. However, reality will continue in spite what is understood or not,about it.
I sense a disturbance in the farce.
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Re: apples and apples
Define time please.woldemar wrote: Is a point ALWAYS equal to itself over time ?
steve
If we had a map of time and space, then the apple remains the same at certain space and time coordinates. However, it would not "remain" since it would stand still at those coordinates.
Another approach could be to look if the apple stores informations of its lifetime. He would change but probably has the informations of his whole existence stored. This would mean he remains the same and changes at the same time.
- woldemar
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Re: apples and apples
I asked...:Is a point ALWAYS equal to itself over time ?
steve
http://www.watermanpolyhedron.com/FIXEDT.html
http://www.watermanpolyhedron.com/MATHVS.html
it is impossible to stop time physically. It is quite possible to omit time in a
mathematical coordinate system. A point is mathematical.
steve
steve
is the relationship between the physical and the mathematical.quotes by mague Define time please.
http://www.watermanpolyhedron.com/FIXEDT.html
http://www.watermanpolyhedron.com/MATHVS.html
We do....we call that the universe.If we had a map of time and space,
Not the question. The apple changes moment by moment....because it is physical.then the apple remains the same at certain space and time coordinates.
it is impossible to stop time physically. It is quite possible to omit time in a
mathematical coordinate system. A point is mathematical.
Not the question. i am not asking about a frozen snapshot in time.However, it would not "remain" since it would stand still at those coordinates.
steve
While statistics and measurements can be misleading, mathematics itself is not subjective.
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
Only believe in the results not necessarily the interpretations or the conclusions.
steve waterman - 1994
- MrAmsterdam
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:59 am
Re: apples and apples
Answer this question then, why wouldn't it be?woldemar wrote:What percentage of the time does 2 apples + 2 apples = 4 apples ?
steve
other question;
I really dont get it.
http://www.watermanpolyhedron.com/MATHVS.html
thenMATHEMATICAL
intellectual, imagined, abstract, created
"impossible to manifest perfectly: physically"
examples....point, line, square, circle, cube, Cartesean coordinate system
ok, can you or cant you use math??? whats the conclusion here? Where does this "continuity" pop up from?Physically there is a problem with apple equality. This mathematical technique works great for just numbers… their inter-relationship is based upon the continuity of evaluation… all intervals between 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. being exactly equivalent.
When numbers are applied to any physical reality, this continuity needs to be in place in order that the numbers reflect an underlying reality.
yes indeed...this is an abstraction....
reality is just reality.
So sorry mate. Thats exactly the wrong conclusions being drawn when you make virtual computermodels based on maths only! Anti-matter? Show me! Proof it! But dont proof it with mathematical abstracts only......PHYSICAL
real, tangible, manifested, exists
examples....neutrino, photons, quarks, mesons, leptons, sub-atomic particles, protons, atoms, anti-matter
Youll find proof in this concept of reality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism anytime!
the empirical way would be; keep on counting different apples. Once you discover and see the answer turns out 5 (?)
your concept or abstraction has a little exception....back to the drawing board then...
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
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