Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[seasmith]

Isn't it time for the Devil's advocate? An observer of Lichtenberg channelling sees that it starts with a thick part and develops a myriad of tentacles.

Ancientd,

They seem to be able to develop either way, depending on polarity of charge and nature of the developer.
For example see:
http://205.243.100.155/frames/lichtenbergs.html

Or consider common electric arc welding with either positive or negative electrode.

Accumulated 'charge' carriers can variously enter or exit an intervening medium, it would appear.

s

[starbiter]

Hello Mungo:I posted this earlier. Don't know if you noticed.

Some of the river systems could have started as Lichtenberg Patterns on a smooth Earth. The process causes areas to rise making the areas that don't rise likely places for drainage giving birth to river systems. The raised areas would be the seeds for mountain building through duning.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&t=p ... 29095&z=10

According to Steve Smith, lightning bolts don't remove material when they create Lichtenberg Patterns. They raise up areas, leaving the non raised areas as drainage areas[rivers]. Guess i'm repeating myself here.

If you look at the patterns in the link you'll notice the pattern repeats itself. There is a small Lichtenberg Pattern to the South, and a much larger pattern to the North. It could be a coincidence, but i think not.

michael

[nick c]

Michael,

If you're an EU Catastrophist then you should be familiar with Dr. Velikovsky. If not, your totally unqualified to discuss this. Re-reading is almost necessary. Agreement is not required, but a familiarity is. I've asked the inside members about their problems with Dr. V. It seems to be a matter of 1500 years. Maybe 3500. Instead of 1495 BCE for the Venus events, it's as early as 5000 BCE. Other than that, instead of Venus being the main force, it might have been Marsas the agent. That has no bearing on my model. Same with the date. 5000 BCE still works nicely. There might be details like an observation from the break-up of the Saturnian system attributed to Venus. This doesn't affect my model. The point here is, if what is described in Worlds in Collision actually happened, as i said before, my model is inevitable. It's based on the observations of the witnesses.The mainstream model explodes. I hope i can help you to see what i see.

I couldn't agree more. Chronology, both geological and historical, is an unresolved issue, but comes under the category of "fine tuning" the paradigm. It is a shame that the defamatory depiction by the mainstream cognoscenti has by and large succeeded in discrediting a great scholar who explored the past and revealed what nobody wants to see. His name is taboo and any mention or support by a scientist or scholar is risking a professional death sentence, therefore many feel the need to keep a safe distance between themselves and his name.
Many catastrophists today seem to consider his work passe, that catastrophism has moved on. I think not, there is still much to be learned from his work.

Can you be a Catastrophist without reading Worlds in Collision.

Yes. Because there were catastrophists before V...Whiston, Boulanger, Cuvier, etc etc. But Velikovsky revived catastrophism in the 20th C; and provided a comprehensive secular catastrophism with a proposal of a natural mechanism. That was unprecented. So, I would say that a modern catastrophist must be fully educated in V's work, if only for the sake of knowing where to modify and what to discard.
I usually recommend Earth In Upheaval first, for those that have never read V, and then W in C, which is a fine tuning of the thesis in E in U. I think it necessary to an understanding of modern catastrophism and evolution and is certainly germane to this thread.

Nick

[GaryN]

I was reading about Bayan Obo in inner Mongolia, and how China has been cutting back on its supply of rare ores to the world, ones that are needed for the production of many eco-tech devices. I thought I would have a look around on Google Earth. As I suspected, many electrical looking features.



Bigger image:

http://www3.telus.net/myworld/eneverse/bayanobo.jpg

I'd like to hear, from anyone interested, what they think of the features around there, as it is hard for me to tell what is a ridge, and what is a channel in some areas. There are also areas that look like they have been pitted by sputtering.

[starbiter]

Hello Nick: Once again, thanks for the kind words. A short story. I was in downtown Portland OR. having lunch at Whole Foods. Great salad bar, and good for people watching. An attractive women about half my age was across the table. I asked what see did in her life. She said she studied religion and had a PhD. in Mythology. My heart raced. Someone to understand my world. I of course asked what she thought of Dr. Velikovsky. She never heard of him. As i tried to explain she couldn't get away from me fast enough. I was left smelling my arm pits.

For an intro to Velikovsy it's hard to beat The Velikovsky Affair. The parts written by Juergens especially. And it's free on line.

Dave Talbott asked me to contact a member of the group 6 months ago, to discuss my work. The nameless person thought they had read Worlds. After a while there didn't seem to be the understanding i'd have expected. It turns out the book that was read was Earth in Upheaval. After a few weeks had passed and Worlds was not read, i literally begged. I said that trying to describe my model to someone who hadn't read Worlds was like trying to explain blue to a blind person. I'm still waiting.

Hello Gary: If you can find the location of the formation you sent me on Google Maps, and not Google Earth, i'll be able to look at it in terrain mode. That's usually more helpful, but not always. The link is the most helpful so i can zoom in and out and look around.If you look at the upper right area of Google Maps you'll see LINK. if you click on it an address will come down you can cut and paste. If you have a problem please PM me.

When i have problems with areas like yours i turn to Steve Smith. He's the person that has spent the most time on these matters. He and i certainly don't always agree, but his opinion is priceless.

michael

[webolife]

The shadows on the buildings to the right show that the lichtenberg features are drainage valleys, and mounds rather than pits on the lower left. I'm interested, however [and Starbiter, too, I bet] in the long duney-looking hills that appear from upper left to right in the middle of the picture "above" the two lichtenberg valleys. The depth perceptions work out better if you view the image upside down.

[allynh]

starbiter, The jpg has the following coordinates.

41 47 22.7 N, 110 26 05.23 E

Zoom around and look at possible man made objects.

The power poles cast a shadow that might show it is a wash. The black line along the south edge may be shadow into the wash.

This is a blatant wash, with the black shadow along the south edge into the wash. So I suspect those places with the black along the south edge are washes.

I love Google Maps. We are looking at Mongolia!

[starbiter]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 5&t=h&z=16

Now i can make a comment. If you zoom out a few times the color will change, and you can see this as a drainage area. Green is the clue. It would appear the shapes in question are drainage. Low points. Now, if an electrical discharge came through the drainage it would affect these areas the most. Remember that sediment that hasn't been zapped is amazingly prone to erosion, especially while the flood is receding.

I'd have no problem reversing the process and having the zap come first. But when in the field i find these structures to be the low point. This provides such a simple, uncomplicated, non-explosive, sort of back door EU model. Steve Smith hates this. He prefers something more dramatic. I'm no fun.


Google Maps Terrain in this case sucks. There seems to be lower res. in places outside the States.

michael

[seasmith]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 5&t=h&z=16

Now i can make a comment. If you zoom out a few times the color will change, and you can see this as a drainage area. Green is the clue. It would appear the shapes in question are drainage. Low points. Now, if an electrical discharge came through the drainage it would affect these areas the most. Remember that sediment that hasn't been zapped is amazingly prone to erosion, especially while the flood is receding.

re: Auroral hardening of Dunes and Telluric Currents chasing Rivers

As mentioned above, I’ve “no doubt that ‘electrification’ can “petrify” duney structures. Most likely scenario is that called by Starbiter (and I think his prospector friend) Aurora hardening.
The strength of the aural flux field,
surely interleaved with so-called Telluric currents,
would, over time, bake the silty mix, just like an oven.


“Drainage” is what Riverine systems do, like a circuit connecting two battery posts.
Looking at the Lichtenbergs above, it’s worth noting that most all major riverine systems exhibit a dual-dendritic form. [Zeus' lightening bolt]
The branches of tributaries in the high lands gather the water from the sky, combine it in a central channel where the currents are the strongest, and finally redistribute the flow via ‘fan-shaped’ alluvial plains (often submerged below the surface) back in to the seas.
One circuit completed.

Picking up again on Starbiter’s drift , those same riverine circuits would just as easily transport electric currents back upstream. Perhaps it’s how Salmon return home to spawn.

These currents would ebb and flow with the wet/dry cycles over time, penetrating into predisposed resonant, crystalline and faulted Earth states; doing it’s electro-chemical work as in the miner’s crucible. Lithography.

~ I’m guessing that a lot of this cymatic and fractal pre-formation would be done well underground, to later be exposed by (equally fractal) forces of erosion.



"Zeus is stronger than the Potamoi (Rivers) that run into the sea, so the generation of Zeus is made stronger than that of a River . . . Not powerful Akheloios matches his strength against Zeus, not the enormous strength of Okeanos with his deep-running waters, and all springs and all deep wells have their waters of him, yet even Okeanos is afraid of the lightning of great Zeus."

Homer, Iliad 21. 190 ff (trans. Lattimore) (Greek epic C8th B.C.)

[webolife]

"Zapped" is a bit strong of a concept to invoke for the hardening of sediment. The polar nature of water itself evokes the compaction as well as the cementation process. Relatively "dry" dune sand will not readily harden or cement. Whatever causes the hardening need not take a great deal of time.

[GaryN]

Slightly off topic perhaps...

Water produced features have a distinct flowing, organic look, but this is about as close to a watery looking feature I can find on Mars, which some say had a wet and watery past. However, there are lots of features on Earth that have the dendritic, electrical look of Martian features.



Bigger image:

http://www.esri.com/news/ArcUser/0408/g ... s_2_lg.jpg

Or maybe these, but I'm not convinced:

http://www.astro.washington.edu/courses ... etwork.gif

http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d ... ies_02.jpg

[starbiter]

Hello Gary: To me it looks like Valles Marineris seems to flow East and then North into what was a Northern Sea. Just South of your map.

http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=5.790896&lon=-52.03125

Now, just add a zap. A really big zap. I think zap is the Latin.

It's really hard to know what's going on here where i can visit. When i return from Mars i'll know much more.

Still just guessing, michael

[starbiter]

More dune crap. I'm staying North of Tucson Az in the Oro Valley. It's the base of the Majestic Catalinas, with Mount Lemmon as the peak. I lived here for three years in the mid 70s. The ridge of the mountain looks like the Petrified Dunes of Moab.

The central core of the Catalina Mountains is granite of Laramide origin, altered by metamorphism to gneiss along its western side.

I'm on the Western side.

One more image to follow.

[starbiter]

One more time.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hl= ... 4&t=p&z=12

[seasmith]

Starbiter wrote:

The central core of the Catalina Mountains is granite of Laramide origin, altered by metamorphism to gneiss along its western side.

Or another view:

With still more metamorphism, gneisses can turn to migmatite and then totally recrystallize into granite.

Despite its highly altered nature, gneiss can preserve geochemical evidence of its history, especially in minerals like zircon which resist metamorphism. The oldest crustal rocks known are gneisses from western Greenland. Their carbon isotopes show that life existed there at that time, nearly four billion years ago.

Gneiss makes up the largest part of the Earth's lower crust. Pretty much everywhere on the continents, you will drill straight down and eventually strike gneiss.

http://geology.about.com/od/rocks/ig/me ... gneiss.htm

Looking at your attached map of the Majestic Catalinas, and noting their random-almost fractal ridge arrangements, i see almost no remaining evidence of duning.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hl= ... 4&t=p&z=12

Do see a couple of signatures for old calderas, south of Summerhaven. Upthrust and erosion.

Yes, this is my final answer.
Wish you sincere best of luck with your investigations where duning is evident.

~s~