Where is the Homounculus

[moses]

Moses your replies are based on Reductionistic science and that really is a dead end. The following short film explains how consciousness arises and it is based on the work of Physicist David Bohm and Neuroscientists Karl Pribram.
The only conclusion is that what we call life is Maya! ...

A little more detail about what was in this film - namely some guy talking
about ala for a few minutes - would have been nice.
The 'life is Maya' thing is incorrect. The logic in the film was incorrect.
If there wasn't really something out there then we would not be generating
electrical nerve impulses. So it's no illusion to consider that there is something
else out there. Another assumption is that there is only experiencing due to
senses. Whereas I'm saying that reducing sensory input opens us to experiencing
that arises from some other source, from within.
Mo

[Divinity]

Moses your replies are based on Reductionistic science and that really is a dead end. The following short film explains how consciousness arises and it is based on the work of Physicist David Bohm and Neuroscientists Karl Pribram.
The only conclusion is that what we call life is Maya! ...

A little more detail about what was in this film - namely some guy talking
about ala for a few minutes - would have been nice.
The 'life is Maya' thing is incorrect. The logic in the film was incorrect.
If there wasn't really something out there then we would not be generating
electrical nerve impulses. So it's no illusion to consider that there is something
else out there. Another assumption is that there is only experiencing due to
senses. Whereas I'm saying that reducing sensory input opens us to experiencing
that arises from some other source, from within.
Mo

I agree about the Maya thing being incorrect. This is an almost impossible argument to have with many 'spiritual' people. Since David Bohm, many are taken in by the 'Illusion' and that 'there's nothing out there', which is plainly ridiculous considering we are interracting with other people all the time and it would be a pretty miserable existence if we were totally alone, stuck in a box where nothing was real. As we are proving right here on the forum with the physics, 'out there' is affecting 'in here' all the time.

Mo, what do you mean by 'some other source, from within'? Thanks.

Divinity

[Divinity]

The video is basically stating that apart from God or if u prefer The Universal Mind, nothing else exist. I think that philosophical concept is perfectly ok for this forum and any other. If you are an Islamaphobic maybe u best get help with that, rather than put your board policemen's helmut on and tell adults what they can and cannot watch.

Hi Whitenight, the video is regarding the Holographic Universe, right? The way I see it is that the Electric Universe theory is diametrically opposite to the former theory because it is proving tangible, physical existence, i.e. although the aether may appear to be mystical, weird and wonderful, it is still physical. When we reduce matter down to vortex/non-material structure level (to 'information'), I guess this is debatable but one could certainly not say the Universe were a hologram, as we humans understand a hologram to be. If you do believe this is a holographic universe, how does this 'hologram' materialise stuff that we can taste, touch and smell?

Thanks
Divinity

[moses]

Mo, what do you mean by 'some other source, from within'? Thanks.
Divinity
We know so little about consciousness(experiencing). To examine the scope
of experiencing one needs to be free of the usual causes of experiencing, as
in the senses and memory. Some drugs may temporarily do this. NDEs may
also be this. But one need not consider what is within (experiencing), because
one focusses on what is causing us misery. And it is the past that causes this.
We are caught in the patterns of the past. So the first step is understanding
that this is so. And if one can step apart from our reactions which are formed
from the past, with understanding that we are so conditioned, then in that
awareness that 'other source' has a chance to act.
Mo

[whitenightf3]

The way I see it is that the Electric Universe theory is diametrically opposite to the former theory because it is proving tangible, physical existence,

Divinity you are making the exact same mistake that Mo is making i.e you are engaged in fallacious philosophical argument that just does not stand up to scrutiny. I would love to watch you two argue with a Solopist you would both get nowhere fast because you do not have a basic grounding in Philosophy.
David Bohm was nowhere near the first person to claim the world is an illusion that conclusion goes back thousands of years even beyond Lord Buddha. Appealing to the senses to claim the world is real is not going to get you anywhere; except you resemble a dog that chases its own tail. Neither of you can prove that there is an objective reality out there independent of the mind. If you think you do have the evidence then I am more than interested in ascertaining exactly what that evidence is.

[junglelord]

Saying the whole thing is illusion, will do the same for yourself.

[Divinity]

Saying the whole thing is illusion, will do the same for yourself.

Precisely.

Whitenight, I am not interested in the foundation and history of previous philosophies/philosophers. Everyone, without exception, has got it wrong so far, IMO, and in this respect, I include all religion, science, philosophy and history. It's about time mankind wiped the slate clean and started to look forward for answers rather than keep searching endlessly for generic truth in the past.

As J/L says, if none of this is real to you, then what does that make you? And how does that philosophy help you in your daily life?

Divinity

[Divinity]

The way I see it is that the Electric Universe theory is diametrically opposite to the former theory because it is proving tangible, physical existence,

Divinity you are making the exact same mistake that Mo is making i.e you are engaged in fallacious philosophical argument that just does not stand up to scrutiny. I would love to watch you two argue with a Solopist you would both get nowhere fast because you do not have a basic grounding in Philosophy.
David Bohm was nowhere near the first person to claim the world is an illusion that conclusion goes back thousands of years even beyond Lord Buddha. Appealing to the senses to claim the world is real is not going to get you anywhere; except you resemble a dog that chases its own tail. Neither of you can prove that there is an objective reality out there independent of the mind. If you think you do have the evidence then I am more than interested in ascertaining exactly what that evidence is.

Can you prove there isn't? I can prove that the majority of women love the taste of chocolate, most people enjoy being in love and children like to splash in (real) puddles and get their feet wet. Can you prove these things don't exist? Could Buddha?

Strikes me it was convenient for any religious leader to tell us none of this was real...yet another control mechanism - take all those God-fearing, intelligent thinking, caring people and tell them there is nothing 'to do' - they just 'have to be'. Yet another excuse to sit around and 'do nothing' but contemplate their navels, and yet another reason why the world is in this mess because humanity never took responsibility for its own creations.

Divinity

[Divinity]

Mo, what do you mean by 'some other source, from within'? Thanks.
Divinity
We know so little about consciousness(experiencing). To examine the scope
of experiencing one needs to be free of the usual causes of experiencing, as
in the senses and memory. Some drugs may temporarily do this. NDEs may
also be this. But one need not consider what is within (experiencing), because
one focusses on what is causing us misery. And it is the past that causes this.
We are caught in the patterns of the past. So the first step is understanding
that this is so. And if one can step apart from our reactions which are formed
from the past, with understanding that we are so conditioned, then in that
awareness that 'other source' has a chance to act.
Mo

Thanks for explaining that, Mo. I agree with you. It's imperative that all we have experienced in the past is laid to rest and that all our creations start from the 'now' moment. Self-forgiveness, forgiveness of others plus 'God' is vital because, as I see it, we create anew every moment. Today is a reflection of yesterday's thinking/emotional being and is unique to the individual. The more individuals who gain happiness through co-creating, the greater contribution is made to the whole - on and off-planet/realm.

When we stop the desire to cause misery, we enjoy the fruits of the gifts given to us by the Universe. It's only at that point that we can really appreciate the beauty and elegance of the system, as we fit into it coherently and become entangled in a positive way. We are all complex systems, just as the Universe is, and instead of creating chaos, it's now time to create order.

Any tool which can enable us to turn our thinking/being around in this fashion helps. For some, that is to go within quietly and reflect on the past/present and future. For others, it's reaction to feedback they receive on a moment-by-moment basis. But first, we have to disassociate/deprogramme ourselves from all negative conditioning/self doubt, as you say, but preferably without forming further addictions (i.e. let the natural unfold).

Divinity

[lizzie]

I believe consciousness is non-local to the brain. As such there exists a Cosmic Morphic Field. Our brains are radio receivers, transmitters and broadcasters. What makes each of us “unique” is the way we receive, read and transmit these signals. Perhaps each person’s DNA sets his or her own “original frequency” (his or her keynote or base resonance frequency). We have the “free will” to “alter” the transmission, to tune in at other frequencies, or change channels. We can “fine tune” our brains so they can become “super tuners and receivers.

Cosmic consciousness in the physical world can manifest only through physical bodies. We exist as real physical entities during our lifetime. However, as individual radio receivers, transmitters and broadcasters, each person “reads” different frequencies.

Humans have to decide what frequency range is best so that the vast majority of people can communicate with (or tune in to) each other and decide how to live together harmoniously. An orchestra consists of its different members each of whom plays a different instrument (frequency). The conductor helps to harmonize all the frequencies so as to make beautiful music; but the orchestra members know that they must learn how to play together if they want to make beautiful music.

What is Consciousness?
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives ... usness.htm

Parnia said. “If on the other hand, 200 people identify these images… then we’d have to accept that maybe human consciousness, as bizarre as it may sound, could be non-local to the brain.”

[lizzie]

Divinity said: Many are taken in by the 'Illusion' and that 'there's nothing out there', which is plainly ridiculous considering we are interacting with other people all the time and it would be a pretty miserable existence if we were totally alone, stuck in a box where nothing was real.

How did we come to believe is our own powerlessness? Did we do it ourselves, or is society structured in order to promote this? Unfortunately it’s a mutual “arrangement” -- all done unconsciously or "for our own good". All of our “esteemed” institutions, whether they are social, political, religious or scientific, teach “consensus knowledge” which promotes “group think.” This is a type of “mind control” where other people tell us how to think and behave. How many of us ever realize this until we are forced to “step outside” and look within.

Divinity said: Everyone, without exception, has got it wrong so far, IMO, and in this respect, I include all religion, science, philosophy and history. It's about time mankind wiped the slate clean and started to look forward for answers rather than keep searching endlessly for generic truth in the past.

Our institutions teach us that we are unworthy “sinful” creatures, and that we need to depend upon them for “salvation.” Wilhelm Reich said we gave away our powers to a master -- the emperor, the Jesuit, the professional killer of people. We continue to believe in our powerlessness and to defend the very institutions which strive to disempower us. I think we have no choice but to “wipe the slate clean” and begin to recreate anew.

Divinity said: Self-forgiveness, forgiveness of others plus 'God' is vital because, as I see it, we create anew every moment.

True, it sounds so simple, it seems trite. Self-forgiveness is probably one of the most difficult things for everyone to do since we have been programmed to see ourselves as unworthy. But if you can’t forgive yourself; you will not be able to forgive others.

Divinity said: When we stop the desire to cause misery, we enjoy the fruits of the gifts given to us by the Universe.

I don’t think most of us realize how much we do that to ourselves, and in, turn to others.

[moses]

Our brains are radio receivers, transmitters and broadcasters.
And resonators.

We have the “free will” to “alter” the transmission, to tune in at other frequencies, or change channels.
But if we still carry the baggage then some situation in the
present will resonate with something in the past, part of the
baggage, and we are swept along in this resonance producing
feeling and action associated with this past experience.

Our institutions teach us that we are unworthy “sinful” creatures, and that we need to depend upon them for “salvation.”
... I think we have no choice but to “wipe the slate clean” and begin to recreate anew.
Lizzie
Unfortunately, we are full of sinful actions, in that in the right
conditions we act badly because we are guided by some experience
in our past. We all realise this and organised religion uses this.
Wiping the slate clean then involves freedom from the past. This is
more than just our conditioning. It also involves trauma and the
epigenetic changes that trauma causes, which changes can be passed
on to our offspring. And so we need to be free of our ancestors'
trauma. However, if we can see that our actions now are the result
of the past, in this moment, then for that moment we are free of the
past. It is just stringing a lot of such moments together, especially
difficult as conditions change and we are swept along by our reactions.
Mo

[lizzie]

Moses said: “And resonators.”

Good point! I forgot that.

Moses said: But if we still carry the baggage then some situation in the present will resonate with something in the past, part of the baggage, and we are swept along in this resonance producing feeling and action associated with this past experience.

Yes, but we can change our resonance frequency patterns so that we will “resonate” to new frequencies; we can change our “bandwidth.”

http://www.angelavatar.com/7stepsoflawsofattraction.pdf

Seven Steps to Change Your “Quantum Resonant Frequencies” to Re-Program Yourself for Success

Moses said: Unfortunately, we are full of sinful actions, in that in the right conditions we act badly because we are guided by some experience in our past.

We are raised to believe that we are unworthy by people who, in turn, were taught that they were unworthy. In other words this destructive pattern has been repeated down through the ages and will continue unabated into the future unless we stop it now. People don’t do this deliberately to themselves or to others. It is a learned pattern of behavior. We need to break free from this destructive pattern.

Moses said: It also involves trauma and the epigenetic changes that trauma causes, which changes can be passed on to our offspring. And so we need to be free of our ancestors' trauma.

I agree with that; but we can no longer afford the luxury of opining about our traumatic pasts; we have to get past that. Most of us are well aware of the problems facing humanity today. We seem to believe these problems exist separately from us until they impact us directly.

No single person can change the world. We are responsible for ourselves and our actions. What we can do is to try and change ourselves. That may sound simple enough, but it is probably the single most difficult task a person will ever face. In order to change we must develop real self-awareness. Again, all this is so contrary to what we have been taught about ourselves.

Moses said: However, if we can see that our actions now are the result of the past, in this moment, then for that moment we are free of the past.

Yes. I agree totally with that. Self-awareness will free each of us from our past so that we can “get on with our lives.”

Moses said: It is just stringing a lot of such moments together, especially
difficult as conditions change and we are swept along by our reactions.

Yes, I agree with that too. At present I think the best we can do is to try to recognize our “destructive behavior patterns” and attempt to modify them accordingly. We can’t undo a lifetime of programming overnight. All the “best laid plans” and “good intentions” may fall by the wayside at any given moment, but hopefully with self-awareness each person will find it easier each time to return to a new “set point.”

[moses]

At present I think the best we can do is to try to recognize our “destructive behavior patterns” and attempt to modify them accordingly. We can’t undo a lifetime of programming overnight. All the “best laid plans” and “good intentions” may fall by the wayside at any given moment, but hopefully with self-awareness each person will find it easier each time to return to a new “set point.” Lizzie
Is modification more programming ? Is the intention to be good a good thing ?
Or is the bad just buried, repressed, and the intention just adds energy to the
bad in holding it down. Self-awareness is not the outcome of building, rather
it is the result of dismantling the past's energy. And our programming is the
result of the untold lifetimes of our ancestors. We get angry via the expression
of lots of genes which process was programmed into us eons ago. But it is
our reactions now that were brought about by the trauma and struggle to survive
due to interplanetary interactions, that interests me here.
Mo

[lizzie]

Moses said: Is modification more programming?

No. I believe through self awareness, we can choose to act differently. There is no programming; it’s unique for each individual.

Moses said: Is the intention to be good a good thing? Or is the bad just buried, repressed, and the intention just adds energy to the bad in holding it down.

The intention is to be neither good nor bad; those are “value judgments.” What changes can we make if we all try to act through self-awareness? I would think that the "end result" could only be positive.

Moses said: Self-awareness is not the outcome of building, rather it is the result of dismantling the past's energy.

Through self-awareness we begin to understand our behavior patterns; also we learn to recognize destructive behavior patterns in the past. We can start to make conscious choices to act differently. The present is a link to the past, but it is also a bridge to the future.

Moses said: And our programming is the result of the untold lifetimes of our ancestors. We get angry via the expression of lots of genes which process was programmed into us eons ago.

This may be so, but we can’t stay “stuck in the past.” The only realistic changes I can see are the ones we decide to do for ourselves.