What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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kiwi
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What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by kiwi » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:11 pm

Hey there's an "idea" ... said Plato to Schroedingers Cat , Barry :?
There isn't enough visible matter in the universe to account for the gravitational force that holds galaxies together as they rotate. For decades, scientists have searched for evidence of the missing "dark matter" that makes it possible. Now, one researcher says that we should instead be looking for galactic-scale electric fields.

Over the decades, astrophysicists have proposed several candidates for dark matter, which they say accounts for nearly 85% of the mass of the universe, including: sterile neutrinos, WIMPs (weakly interacting massive particles), WIMPZILLAs, brown dwarfs and gravitinos. Another hypothetical dark matter particle, axions, might have recently been detected, though it could take years to confirm the discovery.

And now, we have another theory to add to the dark matter menagerie. Physicist Steve Reucroft has published a paper arguing that electrostatic forces could be preventing galaxies from flying apart. He suggests that the extreme activity at the center of a galaxy is bound to propel electrons, and other negatively charged particles, towards the outer regions. This would give the galactic core a net positive electric charge, while the outskirts would become negatively charged. "In fact it is quite implausible that the core should remain electrically neutral," he says.

Reucroft specifically addresses the question of how much of a charge would be required to generate the force capable of holding a galaxy together. As the Physics arXiv Blog explains:

The answer is approximately 10^31 Coulombs at the core and an equal and opposite charge distributed throughout the galactic periphery. That is a significant amount of charge given that the definition of a Coulomb is the charge transported by a constant current of one ampere per second.

However, Reucroft says that on a galactic scale, this amount of charge is relatively little. He calculates that it would be equal to less than one part in 10^17 of the available charge in the galactic core. "It corresponds to one free proton for every ~10^11 cubic meters of galactic core volume," he says.

At the Solar System's location, that would produce a galactic electric field of approximately 1 volt per meter — an effect that would presumably be observable in ways other than on the orbits of stars, although Reucroft does not suggest how.

That's a provocative idea that offers an interesting alternative to dark matter. But it is also one that needs more work to produce some testable hypotheses.

Astronomers might also want to know how this electric field could influence the orbit of stars unless the stars themselves are negatively charged. For that, theorists will need to come up with a convincing charging mechanism.

http://io9.com/what-if-dark-matter-is-a ... 1654048323

gocrew
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by gocrew » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:43 pm

Oh, you just beat me to it! I was just about to post this.

They are inching closer to EU. The electric field is not, of course, caused by throwing electrons to the fringes, but rather by Birkeland currents. Still, they are working their way there.

Maol
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Maol » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:01 am

E=mc2 ergo m = E/c2

kiwi
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by kiwi » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:51 am

Maol wrote:E=mc2 ergo m = E/c2
Weber --------> 2e[2] / MeC[2]

The distance below which two electrons may not approach .... :?

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Rosphere
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Rosphere » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:01 pm

gocrew wrote:Oh, you just beat me to it! I was just about to post this...
And I this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR_b_0SMXk8

Morphix
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Morphix » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:22 pm


Maol
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Maol » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:35 pm

kiwi wrote:
Maol wrote:E=mc2 ergo m = E/c2
Weber --------> 2e[2] / MeC[2]

The distance below which two electrons may not approach .... :?
Electrons are not the only E in the Universe.

Bengt Nyman
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Bengt Nyman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:58 am

Physicist Steve Reucroft has published a paper arguing that electrostatic forces could be preventing galaxies from flying apart.
We have been taught to associate gravity with mass. If we are looking for a missing source of gravity, or attraction, we therefore look for mass. However, knowing that gravity is caused by a complex interaction of electrostatic forces there is no reason to restrict our search to mass. There is also no reason to restrict our search to dark matter or dark mass. The additional attraction is most likely caused by dark energy. See the recent forum subject about The Black Hole, the heart of the galaxy.

Zendo
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Zendo » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:19 am

There is major issues with dark matter data and theory in the first place.

I'd like to point you to a recent talk by Pavel Kroupa:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPVGDXNSBZM

When you look at observations you just don't see what you expected to see if dark matter was actually something at all. Frankly based on this it seems that dark matter is just another fairy tale to patch up a broken standard model of cosmology.

Bengt Nyman
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Bengt Nyman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:34 am

Zendo wrote: Frankly based on this it seems that dark matter is just another fairy tale to patch up a broken standard model of cosmology.
Quite possible, however, don't give up yet. Turn your attention from dark matter (with mass) to dark energy dipoles (without perceivable mass) as carriers of electrostatic attraction.

Rossim
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Rossim » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:11 am

When you say dark energy, are you referring to the classical definition of dark energy which accelerates the expansion of the universe? If not, I'd suggest inventing a new term to avoid confusion.

Bengt Nyman
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Bengt Nyman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:43 am

Rossim wrote:When you say dark energy, are you referring to the classical definition of dark energy which accelerates the expansion of the universe?
For now, yes.

kiwi
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by kiwi » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:53 pm

Maol wrote:
kiwi wrote:
Maol wrote:E=mc2 ergo m = E/c2
Weber --------> 2e[2] / MeC[2]

The distance below which two electrons may not approach .... :?
Electrons are not the only E in the Universe.
Yes I understand that thanks :idea: ... But E=Mc2 tells us nothing really does it? ... Weber was criticised for creating a condition that led to a runaway energy situation by the critics of the time ..... rather ironic when you consider modern useage of the hijacked "singularity" in BH equations? ..... In Webers case the claim was easily refuted as indeed the speed of light was the limiting factor restricting that expansion..... The most important aspect is that he understood there needed to be both the Electro-static and the Electro-Dyanamic "forces" combined if a complete understanding were to be had? ......

I cannot connect the dots myself,... or be wholly sure there are actually dots to be connected :roll: ..... What I do know is that the current approach(s) seem all to lead to mass confusion ..... And also it seem's the component that is missing is the "longitudinal" aspect of the Phenomena .... that is also embedded in Tesla's work? ........
Maxwell’s dismissal of what he did not understand, increasingly took on
the character of ignorant prejudice. There was nothing original in his idea
of an ether as the transmitting medium of electromagnetic action. Had
Gauss seen a clear solution through such a mode of representation, he
would have developed it. There was none, as the glaring failure of
Maxwell’s theory to even account for the existence of the electron ought
to indicate.
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/a ... cience.pdf

gocrew
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by gocrew » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:10 pm

Bengt, Dark Energy is the phantom invented to explain the misperception that the universe is expanding and that this expansion is accelerating. I'm not sure what perspective you are coming from, but you seem to post a lot of stuff that, to EU advocates - as well as orthodox astronomers - is indistinguishable from babble.

I would suggest starting a thread on the appropriate board to explain your ideas, rather than inject them into posts here, where they won't be understood.

Bengt Nyman
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Re: What If Dark Matter Is Actually A Vast Electric Field?

Unread post by Bengt Nyman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:13 pm

Hi gocrew,
Since you are not an administrator, believe what you want and speak for yourself. I do not need your advice.

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