by paladin17 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:51 am
JP Michael wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm
paladin17 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:28 pm
So if "proto-Saturn" was as far as the Moon (as an example), the magnetic moments' product should have been about 10^64, i.e. 17 orders of magnitude higher than today.
Is such a product even possible? I appreciate the napkin math, mate. Cheers.
I used the expression (4.2) - a well known one - in the paper you linked. You can see the product in the numerator. You put the gravitational force in the left side and from this evaluate what this product should be. The expression in square brackets can be ignored, since it only contains unit vectors and doesn't influence the order of magnitude much.
JP Michael wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm
paladin17 wrote:In terms of "polar configuration" I should note as well that the rotating dipole should be perpendicular to the floating one, not parallel to it. And it should spin around the perpendicular axis.
This is still possible if the 'floating one(s)' are the polar shish-kabob, whereas the perpendicular one is the sun.
Well, as I've said, the solar magnetic field in this case should rotate around the axis that is perpendicular to its spin axis (see Figure 5.1 where "Rotator" would be the Sun's magnetic field). Alternatively, the whole "kebab" can rotate around such axis (perpendicular to the solar spin axis), which is conceivable if the "kebab" system was (for some unknown reason)
spiraling towards the Sun.
Thinking about it for a bit, the solar field actually
does rotate in this manner (with some additional complications though) - I mean the 22-year magnetic cycle, when the magnetic north pole travels to heliographic south pole and then comes back to the north pole again. That's an interesting twist.
Magnetic moment of the Sun is only 4 orders of magnitude stronger than Saturn's though.
JP Michael wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm
I will suggest that I don't think the math will be as 'clean' with planets as with neodymium/iron/boron magnets; further, what happens when you add 1. A vacuum; 2. Plasma; 3. Electric currents between bodies thus magnetically held?
Vacuum doesn't change anything really. Plasma would, however. At the very least it helps the magnetic field to decrease less rapidly with distance (see solar wind magnetic field strength as an example). It is a good question though what kind of magnetic interaction we can see if plasma naturally tends to separate itself into different "cellular" regions (e.g. Earth's magnetosphere versus "quiet" solar wind outside of it).
[quote="JP Michael" post_id=4309 time=1610580118 user_id=30575]
[quote=paladin17 post_id=4302 time=1610544520 user_id=29470]
So if "proto-Saturn" was as far as the Moon (as an example), the magnetic moments' product should have been about 10^64, i.e. 17 orders of magnitude higher than today.[/quote]
Is such a product even possible? I appreciate the napkin math, mate. Cheers.
[/quote]
I used the expression (4.2) - a well known one - in the paper you linked. You can see the product in the numerator. You put the gravitational force in the left side and from this evaluate what this product should be. The expression in square brackets can be ignored, since it only contains unit vectors and doesn't influence the order of magnitude much.
[quote="JP Michael" post_id=4309 time=1610580118 user_id=30575]
[quote="paladin17"]In terms of "polar configuration" I should note as well that the rotating dipole should be perpendicular to the floating one, not parallel to it. And it should spin around the perpendicular axis.
[/quote]
This is still possible if the 'floating one(s)' are the polar shish-kabob, whereas the perpendicular one is the sun.
[/quote]
Well, as I've said, the solar magnetic field in this case should rotate around the axis that is perpendicular to its spin axis (see Figure 5.1 where "Rotator" would be the Sun's magnetic field). Alternatively, the whole "kebab" can rotate around such axis (perpendicular to the solar spin axis), which is conceivable if the "kebab" system was (for some unknown reason) [i]spiraling[/i] towards the Sun.
Thinking about it for a bit, the solar field actually [i]does[/i] rotate in this manner (with some additional complications though) - I mean the 22-year magnetic cycle, when the magnetic north pole travels to heliographic south pole and then comes back to the north pole again. That's an interesting twist.
Magnetic moment of the Sun is only 4 orders of magnitude stronger than Saturn's though.
[quote="JP Michael" post_id=4309 time=1610580118 user_id=30575]
I will suggest that I don't think the math will be as 'clean' with planets as with neodymium/iron/boron magnets; further, what happens when you add 1. A vacuum; 2. Plasma; 3. Electric currents between bodies thus magnetically held?
[/quote]
Vacuum doesn't change anything really. Plasma would, however. At the very least it helps the magnetic field to decrease less rapidly with distance (see solar wind magnetic field strength as an example). It is a good question though what kind of magnetic interaction we can see if plasma naturally tends to separate itself into different "cellular" regions (e.g. Earth's magnetosphere versus "quiet" solar wind outside of it).