Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed May 22, 2024 12:26 am

257959

LOW CHRONOLOGY DEBATE/DISCUSSION

Hi Nick. The anachronistic items you mentioned above are interesting. I can't say they're smoking guns yet. Maybe I'll have time to read more of the blog posts I linked to last time soon, which seem to have quite a bit of discussion of Heinsohn & Co.

CARDONA

Your quote of Cardona doesn't at all persuade me that he disliked Velikovsky. He didn't accept some of Velikovsky's conclusions, but I think he admired a lot of Velikovsky's accomplishments. Velikovsky was a maverick and had original ideas with a lot of good evidence to back them up, but he wasn't a mythologist and he seems to have come to a number of wrong conclusions, despite his major accomplishments.

Cardona wrote in God Star more fully:
Immanuel Velikovsky - and I hope no one will accuse me of relying on a scholar who has been discredited137 - had his own explanation concerning the appearance of the witch on her broom on both sides of the Atlantic. As he noted: " ... if there exists a fantastic image that is projected against the sky and that repeats itself all around the world, it is most probably an image that was seen on the screen of the sky by many peoples at the same time. On one occasion a cornet took the striking form of a woman riding on a broom, and the celestial picture was so clearly defined that the same impression was imposed on all the peoples of the world."138
137 My various criticisms of Velikovsky's works have appeared in various publications, and these should be enough to dispel any notions the reader may have concerning my reliance on his expositions, despite my debt to him. Credit, on the other hand, should always be given where it is due.
There's no way that I would say Cardona was suggesting there that Velikovsky was discredited. I read that as "Don't accuse me of relying on someone who's been discredited, because Velikovsky wasn't discredited." He ends up acknowledging his debt to Velikovsky and says Velikovsky deserves credit, even though he has criticized some of Velikovsky's ideas. Bob Forrest wrote several books criticizing Velikovsky's sources and Cardona criticized Forrest for going way overboard. Here's a quote from The Road To Saturn at https://www.aeonjournal.com/articles/ro ... aturn.html .
In his monumental series, which stretched into seven mini-volumes over a period of three years, {Bob} Forrest did Velikovskian scholars a service by exhuming their mentor's original sources and presenting them in their proper context. Unfortunately, since he chose to dissect Worlds in Collision source by source rather than subject by subject, he managed to scatter Velikovsky's evidence on any one topic across some five hundred odd pages, thus robbing the work of its concentrated strength. His unfamiliarity with mythology showed transparently through as so did his misunderstanding of Velikovsky's method. Worst of all, casting Velikovsky in the mold of Erich von Däniken, he treated him rather unkindly while peppering his remarks with sarcastic barbs. This shabby treatment was not only uncalled for, it proved detrimental to the serious consideration his work might have received by Velikovskian scholars. Granted that Forrest proved shrewd enough to finger many of the sore spots contained in Worlds in Collision, he also managed to commit a few blunders of his own. In his relentless discarding of the evidence, he ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As I have stated elsewhere, Velikovsky's Sources could have been a great work had it not suffered too much from lack of objectivity. No matter what good may be said of it, it is not the work to refer to if a truly unbiased evaluation of Velikovsky's work is what is being sought.

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nick c
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by nick c » Wed May 22, 2024 10:28 pm

Lloyd wrote:There's no way that I would say Cardona was suggesting there that Velikovsky was discredited.
He did not suggest that V was discredited, it was a specific assertion....here is my interpretation of what he meant....Velikovsky was a discredited scholar, and I don't want my work rejected by mainstream by that association.

Cardona was critical of Worlds In Collision yet he makes no mention of some of the less interpretive aspects of that book and especially in Earth In Upheaval
No comment on a city in the Andes with remains of farm terraces that are far above the timberline. No mention of sundials that are unusable because the gnomons are inclined at the incorrect angle which implies that the latitude of the city changed or of Babylonian observations of Venus that simply cannot be reconciled with the planet's movements today. Again there are numerous examples cited by V of anomalies that defy explanation that Cardona ignored. The magnetic dip of Etruscan and Greek vases from the 8th C BC are another example. All of these, and many more too numerous to mention here, need explanations in terms of Cardona's timescale of catastrophe.

Why is Cardona so against the revised chronology? could it be that to back it he would have to acknowledge that Velikovsky be credited? I can give one instance (or many) where the mainstream chronology is falsified in one specific archaeological column. Tell Munbaqa. I expect to do a post on this soon. And as a preemptive retort, the assertion that the civilization that created the superseding layer, in the process of building completely obliterated all traces of the intervening aeolian layer is simply untenable. That is not the way the archaeological layers are formed.

Note: the short version of the revised chronology has no bearing whatsoever on Saturn Theory, except that it may or may not warrant a reconsideration of the time frame.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri May 24, 2024 9:20 pm

258215

I totally disagree that Cardona considered Velikovsky discredited, Nick. Some of his ideas were pretty much disproven, but many were not.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat May 25, 2024 6:00 pm

258262

CARDONA RE VELIKOVSKY
Nick, you said: He [Cardona] did not suggest that V was discredited, it was a specific assertion....here is my interpretation of what he meant....Velikovsky was a discredited scholar, and I don't want my work rejected by mainstream by that association.
I don't know how you can think that, unless you've read very little of Cardona. I don't see any evidence that Cardona tried to cozy up to the mainstream at all. What's there about Cardona's Saturn Theory that the mainstream is going to accept any time soon? I believe my interpretation of Cardona's statement about V being discredited makes way more sense. Cardona, Talbott and Cochrane have done excellent jobs IMO figuring out mythology and determining which ancient gods referred to which planets and other ancient scenes and events. Velikovsky was more of a generalist and was not as expert in mythology. The Saturnists corrected a lot of V's mythology mistakes. They're even more radical than V in claiming that Earth, Venus and Mars trailed Saturn in a line from outside the solar system, instead of initially orbiting Saturn within the solar system. So Cardona merely stated that V was wrong about some of his mythological identifications and thus about dating the Venus and Mars cataclysms. Cardona favored Peter James' chronology, which was close to that of David Rohl. I favor Rohl so far. James and Rohl shorten Egyptian chronology by about 3 centuries. That's not mainstream. So far I don't see a smoking gun that Cardona was guilty of hating Velikovsky.

I may have less access to the internet soon, since I'm trying to get a job, but I hope it won't interfere much with my contributions here.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu May 30, 2024 12:23 am

260291

TURQUOISE SUN/SATURN

Ev Cochrane made a couple videos on this topic so far. I made the following transcript of the prequel. I posted the transcript along with some of the images at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... unsaturn-1. Ev also had an article, maybe on his website https://www.maverickscience.com/ about Mars having been green before it became red. Cardona showed evidence that Saturn was initially purple, so I think that was before the nova stage during the Age of Darkness. I think in God Star Cardona said Saturn was also red during the Age of Darkness. So maybe it went from purple to red, then went nova, very bright, then turquoise and green, then Mars became red. Maybe I or someone will sort all that out some day. It seems pretty certain that Cardona concluded that Saturn went nova at the Younger Dryas event, i.e. Saturn's nova caused the YD event.

Ev Cochrane: Turquoise Sun – Chronicle of Creation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1jc4lOCtK4

Ev Cochrane: Turquoise Sun – Prequel to Discovery
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_mD-GUNRo7U&t=22s

COCHRANE MET TALBOTT. Given the feedback I've received since posting the first video on the Turquoise Sun series, it occurs to me that a brief review of the historical reconstruction defended by David Talbot and myself might be helpful in order to clarify various matters and set the stage for the discussion to follow. In the early 1970s, Dave began theorizing about a polar configuration of planets in the northern circumpolar heavens. So far as I know, this idea was original with him and had never occurred to anyone previously. In The Saturn Myth, published in 1980, Dave presented a wealth of evidence in favor of this hypothesis, arguing that Saturn and its unique configuration dominated the sky and the relatively recent prehistoric past. In that book, Dave did not speculate about the role of other planets in the configuration in question. But it was evident from his writings and network that he ascribed Jupiter and Mars prominent roles as well. He believes Mars is involved in the formation of the World Mountain, for example. I first learned about Dave's theory in 1981 and began corresponding with him shortly thereafter. Very early on, I had arrived at the idea that in order to be conceptualized at the eye of Horus, Venus must have appeared behind Mars but in front of Saturn. Although Dave had Venus and Jupiter hidden behind Saturn in his original scenario, he eventually saw the logic of my contribution and our collaboration was born.

VENUS, EYE OF MARS? In a series of articles published in the journal Kronos in the mid 80s, Dave and I presented evidence that Venus's comet-like history traced to the period of its involvement in the polar configuration, i.e. in prehistoric times well before the series of events discussed by Velikovsky and Worlds in Collision circa 1500 BCE. We identified Venus with the eye of Horus. The latter described as rampaging about the sky in serpentine form and threatening the world with destruction. In the Saturn myth, Dave relied heavily on a careful reading of the Egyptian Pyramid Texts to make his case. In addition to being the oldest corpus of religious texts found anywhere on Earth, the Pyramid Texts have the additional advantage that the hieroglyphic language employed often encodes the celestial imagery in strikingly concrete terms. Consider the name of the Egyptian goddess Hathor, which literally means House of Horus. As the eye of Horus, Hathor is to be identified with the planet Venus. Horus, in turn, was identified with the planet Mars by Egyptian skywatchers as early as the second Millennium BCE. Encoded in Hathor's name is the astronomical information that Venus was conceptualized as housing or containing Horus/Mars. The Egyptian texts have the additional advantage that they are endlessly redundant, describing the same celestial relationships from numerous different vantage points. Thus it is that Horus/Ra is repeatedly described as residing within the womb of Hathor. Here too, Horus/Mars was clearly conceptualized as a place within Hathor/Venus.

EARLY SATURN, VENUS, MARS CONFIGURATION. Central to our argument from day one was the proposition that the unique relationship between Mars and Venus provides the key to understanding the message encoded in ancient myth and religion. The ancient sources speak with one voice that Mars was located between Earth and Venus, seemingly fixated in front of the larger body for a prolonged period of time. Hence we would understand the classic depictions of Horus at the breast of Hathor accounts, describing him as the pupil of her eye. Inasmuch as this particular configuration of planets is quite impossible, and the present arrangement of the solar system where Mars can never appear in front of Venus, much less for a prolonged period, it constitutes a decisive claim of our reconstruction. With this scenario in mind, we hired a world class computer animation company to simulate what 3 spheres the size of Saturn, Venus and Mars would look like. While in conjunction they came up with the following image. Here Saturn is the large yellow orb, Venus is the green orb, and Mars is the innermost red orb. While it would take numerous videos to summarize the evidence pointing to this particular arrangement of planets, the short answer is because the ancient testimony demanded it.

RAGING EYE IN ANCIENT ART. It will be seen at once, moreover, that this image closely approximates the classic sun image recorded in rock art the world over. A core principle of our research methodology holds that the primary mythological motifs must be reflected in ancient artworks. A classic example in this regard is the oldest pictograph of the planet Venus; it's Inanna, the so-called mu sign. Given the known fact that the earliest Sumerian script, like the Egyptian script, was pictographic in nature, how is it possible to explain this image by reference to Venus? The answer is that it depicts a comet-like Venus during one particular phase in the polar configuration's history. Hence, it comes as no surprise to find that the destructive history of Inanna/Venus, as recounted in the Sumerian sources, is virtually indistinguishable from the Egyptian accounts of the raging eye of Horus.

VENUS ROSETTE/LOTUS. Another early symbol associated with Venus was the rosette. An example taken from Inanna's Temple at Uruk is illustrated here. What are we to make of the fact that the innermost core of the rosette was red in color? According to our historical reconstruction, this red orb must be Mars, the deduction supported by the fact that analogous images will be found around the globe. Which brings us back to a core thesis of the case of the Turquoise Son. The planet Mars as Horus was specifically described as a star on a Lotus flower at the time of creation. Thus it is that the passage from the Coffin Texts recounts the God's inaugural appearance during the tumultuous natural events attending the primeval separation of heaven and earth, a pivotal juncture in cosmogonic myths around the globe. Quote "The earth opens its mouth. Geb throws open his jaws on my account. And I will raise up as Horus preeminent on his Lotus flowers." End of quote. The Star god's epical appearance atop the Lotus is celebrated again and again in Egyptian texts, albeit always in elusive terms. A hymn from the post Amarna period invokes the Horus child as follows. Quote "Greetings, boy from the womb child who ascends in the Lotus flower. Beautiful youth who comes from the land of light and illuminates the 2 lands with his light." End of quote. The Horus child atop a Lotus flower represents a popular theme in Egyptian religious iconography as well. According to Eric Horning, the Dean of Egyptologists, quote "The sun god on a Lotus blossom was an image of the first emergence of shapes at the creation." End of quote. James Allen offered a very similar assessment of the archaic traditions attached to the Lotus. Quote "One of the images is of the first place in which the sun rose." End of quote.

FOUR-PETALED SUN/SATURN. You know why an infant child sitting atop a Lotus should be an archetypal symbol of creation? It's rarely addressed by Egyptologists and has never received a satisfactory answer. At no point is the elephant in the room addressed, namely, where in all of heaven is a Lotus-like structure to be found in the immediate vicinity of the sun? Yet if we take our cue from ancient artworks, and obvious answer presents itself. The Lotus likely has reference to the petaloid forms associated with the sun and iconic images around the globe, many of which occur in prehistoric context. Consider the Syrian seal depicted here, which shows what appears to be a four-pedaled sun. Our hypothesis receives a significant measure of corroboration from the fact that analogous conceptions are evident in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica. The most common name for sun in the Mayan language was Ken, the hieroglyph for which depicts a four-petal flower. Such imagery is perfectly familiar to all Mayans. Quote "In Mayan iconography, the sun was conventionally represented as a four-petaled flower." End of quote. Considered in isolation, the Mayan traditions with respect to a four-petaled Sun can only appear as incongruous and alien in nature, divorced as they are from our own experience, where flower like forms are nowhere to be found in the immediate vicinity of the sun. Yet, when viewed in light of the cylinder seals from the ancient Near East depicting a four-petaled Sun, they suddenly take on a profound significance. Can anyone doubt that were such a constellation to present itself in the sky, traditions of a four-pedaled sun would be certain to follow? It's, as far as I'm aware, not a single Mayanist, Egyptologist, or Sumerologist has ever entertained the possibility that the artworks in hieroglyphs in question might faithfully reflect the sun's visual appearance at some point during the distant past.

ASTRONOMICAL CHALLENGE. Looking back on those early years of my collaboration with Dave, it is simply impossible to convey the thrill of discovery as we developed our ideas and saw one deduction after another confirmed in distant cultures in Mesoamerica, India and China. I often compared our working relationship to that of Watson and Crick, or Lennon and McCartney. Our partnership was at once complementary and synergistic in nature with one of us pushing the other to ever greater insights again and again. But there was one colossal problem. We had no idea how to explain the images we were reconstructing from an astronomical standpoint. How was it possible to explain those petaloid forms depicted in the Rosetta Venus?

THORNHILL’S ANSWER: ELECTRIC DISCHARGE. As Dave described at great length in an article in Aeon, it was Wal Thornhill who provided the answer during a prolonged visit to Portland in 1996. Quote, "What Wal presented to me involved, among other things, the principle of plasma discharge, and he provided a dramatic illustration as the manner in which such a discharge will account for the unique descriptions of the radiant Venus, with streamers radiating in all directions. Wal proposed that Venus was the focus of such discharge due to the electrical interactions with other bodies in the hypothesized polar configuration. This would mean that what I have called the radiance of Venus was not due so much to illumination of material from the Sun, but to the luminosity of the discharge itself." End of quote.

AXIAL JET & SPIRAL. Equally revolutionary was the implication of the optics of the respective planetary forms. In order to be seen as a radiant rosette-like form in the sky, Venus and Mars would have to be aligned on a common axis with the Earth. They've discussed this aspect of the theory at some length in the same article. Quote, "In order for the observer on Earth to see the predicted image, only one vantage point will work. The Earth itself must be on the axis, precisely the position claimed in the historical argument. Again, to fully appreciate the significance of this, one must be willing to apply both common sense and elementary principles of probability. One highly unusual point of correspondence will be impressive enough, but when multiple highly unusual correspondences converge in one reconstruction, the improbability of the accidental explanation quickly grows exponentially to astronomical proportions. With that principle in mind, a further correspondence must be considered. In both the laboratory version and in the galactic scale plasma model, there is, in addition to the organization of spiraling gases out from the axis, the potential for a jetting of material along the axis, a phenomenon mocking Newtonian models of the universe. This streaming of gas is along the axis of rotation. This has, for 25 years, been part of the bedrock of the Saturn theory. That is the meaning of the polar column, or world mountain, remembered by all ancient peoples." End of quote.

CLOSING. Those were the days, my friends. Days of breathtaking discovery and camaraderie rarely seen in the history of science. Alas, time marches on and remains undefeated. And yet, the intellectual revolution sparked by the Saturn myth remains ongoing now and forever, so long as inquiring minds take serious heed to what the ancient skywatchers have to tell us. The truth will out.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:46 pm

261701

SATURN NOVA AT YOUNGER DRYAS
https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nger-dryas

I just posted that, which is excerpts from Cardona's book, Metamorphic Star, about the Saturn Nova causing the Younger Dryas event. He said it was about 10,000 years ago, but it's pretty certain that it was much more recent, i.e. I think about 2,600 BC.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:13 pm

264609

TURQUOISE SUN VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Ev Cochrane: Turquoise Sun – Chronicle of Creation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1jc4lOCtK4

EV'S BOOK PROPOSITIONS. My most recent book, The Case of the Turquoise Son, summarizes nearly 1/2 century's worth of research into ancient myth and archeoastronomy. Our primary findings include the following basic propositions.
1. The first gods were the planets, pure and simple.
2. Myths of creation, inasmuch as they describe the deeds of the gods and ordering the cosmos, are best understood as eyewitness accounts describing extraordinary cataclysmic events involving the respective planets moving in close proximity to Earth and giving rise to the principal structures of the celestial landscape: ladder to heaven, the world tree, the luminous city on a hill, et cetera.
3. The earliest cosmogonic myths of Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Meso-America encode the explosive birth of the turquoise sun, a sun which is clearly distinguishable from the present Sun.
4. The Queen of Heaven, referenced in the Old Testament and the countless other ancient texts around the globe, is to be identified with the planet Venus.
5. The warrior hero, represented by such familiar figures as Heracles, Gilgamesh, Samson, Cuchulainn and Batraz, is to be identified with the planet Mars.
6. The global myth of the sacred marriage, most familiar in Homer's account of the torrid love affair between Aphrodite and Aries, describes a close conjunction or union of Venus and Mars.
7. The origin of the primary institutions of human civilization, science, religion, philosophy, monumental architecture, drama, dance, music, sports, marriage ritual, etcetera, is firmly rooted in the catastrophic events involving the respective planets. To complete the basic propositions, here's #8.
8. The history of the solar system recounted in modern textbooks is utterly wrongheaded and divorced from reality.

THE TURQUOISE SUN. This is the initial episode of a series based on the Turquoise Sun. In the forthcoming episodes, I will present evidence in favor of each of these propositions. Suffice to say that proper documentation is to be found in my latest book, The Case of the Turquoise Son, The Natural History of Creation, within my entire collection of published material, beginning with the Aeon Journal in 1988. The Basic plot of the case of the Turquoise Sun revolves around the claim that the earliest remembered sun and human tradition presented a brilliant turquoise form at the time of creation. The Book of the Dead includes the following account. Quote, "When thou appearest in the horizon of heaven, hymns to thee are in the mouths of everyone. Thou being beautiful and youthful on the sun disk within the arms of thy mother Hathor. How thy shinest in every place, thy heart rejoicing forever, how thou shinest in the horizon of heaven. Thou hast strewn the two lands with turquoise. The primal Sun was elsewhere described as a sun of turquoise." End of quote. The primal Sun was elsewhere described as a Sun of turquoise. Indeed, as Jan Zandee pointed out in his commentary on this hymn, turquoise was deemed to be the very substance of which the sun was composed. The Cult of the Sun reached its greatest heights during the New Kingdom, roughly 1500 to 1200 BCE. Quote, "Hail to you who rises in turquoise" reads one Solar hymn. Such imagery is so commonplace in the solar hymns that Egyptologists readily concede the point, even though it stands in stark contradiction to empirical reality. Joris Borghouts emphasized the point. Quote, "In certain hymns the sun is said to strew the sky with turquoise." End of quote. What is true in ancient Egypt is also true in Meso-America. Thus it is that the Aztecs referred to the sun God by such epithets as turquoise child, turquoise prince. Although analogous traditions are to be found around the globe, they have never garnered serious attention from scholars.

THE FIRST GODS. That the planets were the first gods, while controversial at first sight, is readily demonstrable upon a critical analysis of the relevant evidence. In the earliest writing system of Sumer, for example, the concept of God was represented by the sign of a star. Already in the fourth Millennium BCE, Sumer's greatest goddess is explicitly identified with the planet Venus. What is true of ancient Mesopotamia is also true of Egypt, where the leading God Horus is explicitly identified with the prominent star in pictographs dating to 3000 BCE. So too in the earliest Indo-European pantheon, the supreme God Zeus and his various cognates in other languages is explicitly identified as being celestial in nature. The name Zeus, for example, derives from the Indo-European root t'yeu and denotes sun, sky, light. Simply stated, the earliest gods of which we have any knowledge could be securely identified with material bodies in the sky overhead, i.e. the stars and planets. The earliest extant literature to be found anywhere on Earth describes the gods as celestial agents. Sumerian hymns describing the goddess Inanna described her as a towering planet filling the sky. Quote, "She who fills heaven and earth with her huge brilliance." End of quote. The same goddess is elsewhere described as the "Holy torch who fills the heavens." So too, in texts from the third Millennium BCE, the Egyptian God Horus is described as a fiery star who implanted himself within the womb of Isis. A pyramid text invokes the star god as follows, quote, "There is tumult in the sky. 'We see something new', say the primeval gods. O you Ennead, Horus is in the sunlight. ... The King takes possession of the sky. He cleaves its iron." End of quote.

TUMULT IN THE ANCIENT SKY. Evident in the Mesopotamian and Egyptian texts alike is the fact that the epiphany of the great gods is something that takes place in the skies overhead and is of a tumultuous, catastrophic nature, marked by the shaking of heaven and earth, prodigious amounts of lightning, and earth-splitting thunder. This is nowhere better illustrated than in ancient descriptions of sunrise which speak of it as being marked by the shaking of heaven and earth. Of the numerous texts that could be cited in this regard, the following Sumerian hymn to the Sun god is representative in nature. Quote, "As my king comes forth, the heavens tremble before him, and the earth shakes before him." End of quote. Elsewhere in the same hymn, Utu is described as follows. Quote, "The lord, the son of Ningal ... thunders over the mountains like a storm." Now I ask, does this sound like a realistic description of the modern experience of sunrise? In what sense is a solar epiphany ever accompanied by thunder or the shaking of heaven on earth? Here too, the evidence of ancient language corroborates the testimony of the earliest written text with regards to the inherent relationship between the primal sun and lightning. Thus it is that around the globe, languages identify the sun as a locus of lightning or storm. The Sumerian logogram UD, for example, denotes Sun. Yet the same logogram denotes storm and constitutes a traditional epithet of the archaic Thunder-God. The same anomaly is to be found in the ancient Semitic language where umu denotes sun as well as storm. So too, in Meso-America the proto-Maya term k'uuh denotes sun god, divinity, while the cognate k'uh denotes lightning, thunderbolt. Encoded in such archaic terminology is a historical fact that the primal sun was a locus of intense electrical activity, likely plasma-based in nature, as per the theories of Anthony Peratt and Wal Thornhill.

LIGHTNING OF THE GODS. Early artworks allegedly depicting the sun are equally difficult to square with the familiar solar orb. These figures include three different so-called solar images commonly depicted on Mesopotamian cylinder seals. It will be evident at once that not one of them bears any resemblance to the familiar Sun. The current Sun does not appear in a crescent, for example, nor does it typically reveal a star like form in its center. Now consider the image depicted in this figure. A close variation on the previous image, representing an earlier phase in the evolutionary history of the polar configuration, in which fiery lightning-like filaments radiate across the disc of the sun. In our view, the global traditions of the lightning-discharging sun, or solar eye, likely find their origin here. An old Babylonian Hymn provides an archaic example of this idea. Quote, "May Utu at his rising from his chamber gaze with his favorable eye towards it. My king raised his head toward heaven there. May everyone praise him together when he raises his eyes, flashing like lightning." End of quote. Analogous traditions will be found seemingly everywhere. The very same idea appears among the indigenous tribes of the Amazonian jungle. Quote, "Lightning is also interpreted as a glance from the sun, a rapid twinkle." End of quote. So too, it will be remembered that Zeus's eye cast forth the thunderbolt in Greek tradition.

THE ANCIENT SUN WAS DIFFERENT. To summarize, the evidence of the ancient literary text, artworks and language speaks with one voice telling of a radically different sun prevailing in the relatively recent prehistoric past. It is at this point that the informed reader is confronted with certain fundamental questions of logic and common sense. At what point does the evidence become too compelling to be ignored? At what point can we expect a fruitful interface of ancient myth and modern science? In a recent discussion of scientific methodology, the astronomer John Steele pointed out the decisive role planetary observations played in the development of the respective physical and mathematical sciences. It was the Babylonian planetary observations, after all, that Ptolemy drew upon in order to place Greek astronomy and mathematics on a secure scientific foundation, after which the new science spread to India, China, Egypt and the four corners of the globe. Steele offered the following important observation. Quote, "Astronomy always has been and still is a science that relies on the use of past observations. Unlike most sciences, astronomy can never be truly experimental. Astronomers can only observe the astronomical phenomena that present themselves.... Perhaps uniquely in the sciences, astronomers therefore are forced to rely upon empirical data collected by their predecessors." End of quote. Yet, as we have documented in the case of the turquoise sun and other works, modern astronomers have almost uniformly ignored the astronomical observations included in ancient literary texts, pictographs and artworks. They do so at their own peril. For what could be more revolutionary than the possibility that wholly different Sun dominated the sky in the relatively recent prehistoric past?

Lloyd
Posts: 5460
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Jun 09, 2024 2:37 am

264791

CARDONA V. OARD REGARDING YOUNGER DRYAS

I just posted this at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nger-dryas
And I added that to my online book at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history

Oard found that conditions after the Great Flood likely caused the Ice Age, which started out mild, with megafauna proliferating on the grasslands of much of Europe and Siberia and North America, but gradually cooling with glaciation, which along with the drought caused by megafloods, caused high latitude oceans to freeze over. Cardona, on the other hand, found that the Saturn nova seems to have caused the Younger Dryas event. Both seem to be a bit short-sighted, but both also seem to have part of the story.

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