Cautionary Note

Plasma formations in the ancient sky. The role of planets as charged bodies in these formations. Ground-rules for drawing reliable conclusions. A new approach to the mythic archetypes: is a unified theory of world mythology possible?
Grey Cloud
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Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:36 am

Hi Mague,
You asked what is a man-god? Well here is my take.
Traditionally these are the Adept, the Mage, the Yogi, the Swami etc. They are all the result of mental discipline.
In alchemical terms they are the result of separating the subtle from the gross. Where the gross is the physical, material world of the body, including the brain, and the subtle is the mental, non-material world of the soul or essence and the mind.
In theory this is open to each and everyone of us and each individual can take the route which suits them best: 'many paths; one Truth'. However, regardless of the path it takes prolonged dedication and mental discipline to achieve. This is where and why most people don't do it. Some are trapped in the world of the senses, constantly seeking new 'experiences' others are mentally lazy and are content to let others do their thinking for them. People are also very good at coming up with excuses - 'I'm too busy' or 'I'm not clever enough'.
According to the X-Files, the Truth is 'out there', while according to Jesus in the NT, the kingdom of heaven is within'. My money is on the 'within', although I am not totally convinced that in and out are valid concepts.
My own experiences in this area, and I make no claim to be an adept or anything close, are that if you ask and are sincere, you will get a reply. Whether you choose to act on what you 'hear' is a different kettle of fish.
The heroes of myths etc, are generally speaking people who have gone through this alchemical transmutation, either individually or more commonly, by way of one of the Mystery schools. The Epic of Gilgamesh describes the process as does for example the Odyssey. Fairy-tales such as Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty are also allegories of this process.
The super-human powers commonly attributed to these heroes would better be termed supra-human. The adept etc 'comprehends' the Law and can access and utilise that Law to do things which the rest of us cannot. To use a computing analogy, the adept has progressed from a
'user' to a 'power user'(or beyond). In short you are by-passing the brain and the limits of the senses.

Which brings us nicely to Daniel Tammet and other like him. I first came across him a few years ago while watching some documentaries featuring the work of V. S. Ramachandran. Fascinating stuff.
Synesthesia is viewed by (Western) medical science as caused by 'problems' or malfunctions' in the brain which in a sense it is. However I see it differently. We currently possess five active senses (plus two latent senses) but this is a result of our present condition of being human. Put another way, the senses are a result of the physical body. That which we are in 'reality' does not have senses as such - we have 'comprehension' (for want of a better way of putting it). When the mind is focuses upon something, whether physical object or a concept, it instinctively ''knows' or 'comprehends' all that is to be known about that thing.
Colour, smell, taste etc are all the result of the limitations of our physical body. Absent the body and you absent the limitations.
What is happening with people like Tammet is that a barriers or barriers, if you will, have been removed or 'damaged', thus allowing the partial merging of what we regard as individual senses.
I don't see people such as Tammet as god-men, or even close. What use is being able to calculate big numbers to x decimal places? Pythagoras could describe the Universe using the digits 1 to 10.
What I would do with people like Tammet, instead of pumping them full of chemicals in an attempt to make them 'normal', is to have them read metaphysics or alchemy etc, see someone versed in the qabala or some other spritual tradition so that they could try to put their 'condition' into some sort of perspective and hopefully give them a way of helping them to turn it into a positive, rather than have them believe that they have a problem which requires an expert (i.e. they can't do anything about it themselves) to cure or treat.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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Tina
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Location: NSW Australia

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Tina » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:12 am

Grey Cloud wrote:r'(or beyond).

However I see it differently. We currently possess five active senses (plus two latent senses) but this is a result of our present condition of being human. Put another way, the senses are a result of the physical body. That which we are in 'reality' does not have senses as such - we have 'comprehension' (for want of a better way of putting it). When the mind is focuses upon something, whether physical object or a concept, it instinctively ''knows' or 'comprehends' all that is to be known about that thing.
What are the 2 latent :? senses? Also would ATTUNED be another word for COMPREHENSION?

mague
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Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by mague » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:54 am

Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Mague,
You asked what is a man-god? Well here is my take.
Traditionally these are the Adept, the Mage, the Yogi, the Swami etc. They are all the result of mental discipline.
Isnt mental discipline a synonym for artifical ? Hesse describes this well in his book Siddhartha and the history of Sallieri and Mozart descibe a similar idea. Mozart is far from mental discipline, but he is a musical genius. Mozart did say it himself: "Yes, i am a vulgar person, but my music is not". While Sallieri was a good follower of mental discipline he could never reach Mozart's level. And Mozart himself said, he doesnt compose the music. He just did write down what was allready there.

Even the buddhist tradition of seeking the reborn Dalai Lama and putting him back on the throne is an artificial method of mental discipline.On quite a different level though.
In alchemical terms they are the result of separating the subtle from the gross. Where the gross is the physical, material world of the body, including the brain, and the subtle is the mental, non-material world of the soul or essence and the mind.
Should we really seperate them ?

There was this human asking god: Why does earth exist like it is ?
And god answered: I made this physical garden as a resort for energetic beings. How else could they live and learn the meaning of warmth, cold, love, hate, joy, fear and tenderness. How else could they learn the joy of a good meal, the sun shining into your face or the warm summer rain on your body. Garden Eden was the only solution to let me and the higher energetic beings encounter the physical aspects of the universe i created.
In theory this is open to each and everyone of us and each individual can take the route which suits them best: 'many paths; one Truth'. However, regardless of the path it takes prolonged dedication and mental discipline to achieve. This is where and why most people don't do it. Some are trapped in the world of the senses, constantly seeking new 'experiences' others are mentally lazy and are content to let others do their thinking for them. People are also very good at coming up with excuses - 'I'm too busy' or 'I'm not clever enough'.
According to the X-Files, the Truth is 'out there', while according to Jesus in the NT, the kingdom of heaven is within'. My money is on the 'within', although I am not totally convinced that in and out are valid concepts.
I think both concepts are in place at the same time. I quoted Advaita in another thread. "God likes to watch himself through the human eye". The american natives say: We are all one spirit. Its the mathematical theory of sets. The syetem of families represents this as well. We are partof a family, clan, tribe, race, solarsytem, galaxy, universe. The fact that god represents the main group doesnt exclude subsets.

Beethoven: Ode to Joy
english lyrics
My own experiences in this area, and I make no claim to be an adept or anything close, are that if you ask and are sincere, you will get a reply. Whether you choose to act on what you 'hear' is a different kettle of fish.
I agree. The question is: Who or what is answering ? ;)
The super-human powers commonly attributed to these heroes would better be termed supra-human. The adept etc 'comprehends' the Law and can access and utilise that Law to do things which the rest of us cannot. To use a computing analogy, the adept has progressed from a
'user' to a 'power user'(or beyond). In short you are by-passing the brain and the limits of the senses.
Isnt the universe like an ant colony ? The needs of the collective "produce" different ants. Workers, soldiers, farmers and nannies. But all of them are equally relevant for the survival of the colony. Its the collective that does decide on the fly what is needed. If a hero is needed then there is one. Often enough against their will ;)

The traditional career of the shamans is a good example. None of them wanted to be one. All went through crisis, pain, death and rebirth.
I don't see people such as Tammet as god-men, or even close. What use is being able to calculate big numbers to x decimal places? Pythagoras could describe the Universe using the digits 1 to 10.
What I would do with people like Tammet, instead of pumping them full of chemicals in an attempt to make them 'normal', is to have them read metaphysics or alchemy etc, see someone versed in the qabala or some other spritual tradition so that they could try to put their 'condition' into some sort of perspective and hopefully give them a way of helping them to turn it into a positive, rather than have them believe that they have a problem which requires an expert (i.e. they can't do anything about it themselves) to cure or treat.
Tammet stands out because he is describing the world in a different way. Not the calculation of big numbers is what makes him special. The way how he does it is special. He modelled the numbers he "sees" in 3D out of plasticine. When he compares the 3D model of 5 and 2 the geometric difference is a 3D model of 3. The size of the number doesnt matter.The way how he does it is special and telling humankind a lot. This guy is basically sitting on sacred geometry. On top of that he can feel the numbers. He had quite some problems with New York. The skyscapers all reminded him of the number 9 and it gave him emotional stress.

Grey Cloud
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Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:36 am

Hi Tina,
You asked:
What are the 2 latent senses? Also would ATTUNED be another word for COMPREHENSION?
Attuned would work. I use comprehension because what I 'experience' is a sort of is/isn't, correct/incorrect, true/false type of thing. I 'comprehend' which it is and why, or which it isn't and why not. This has only been happening for a year or two but it has never let me down so far.
The two latent sentences are the 6th and 7th and are associated with the brow chakra (6th) and the crown chakra (7th). These are associated with the pituitary and pineal glands respectively. As to what these senses would do, well, they are asscociated with the two outermost planets, Uranus and Neptune. (Personally I think that the modern 'experts' who named these planets might have got them the wrong way round, i.e. Uranus should be the outermost (if one accepts the teaching of the world's mythology).
Consider the Egyptian ureus with the cobra and vulture. The cobra ties in with kundalini and chakras. Not quite sure of the symbology of the vulture in this connection but carrion-eaters (vulture, condor, crocodile, crow, etc) in general are viewed as creatures get their sustenance from dead things. They get life from death - which tells us that death is not death as we view it. Death is not the end but an ending (of cycle).
Using the Greek names for the concepts and the Roman for the planets, then Poseidon is water (as in one of the 4 Greek elements) and Ouranus is the sky or heavens (air).
Ouraus is essentially the container which forms our (little, physical) universe. Poseidon is the stuff with which it is filled and from which all matter is formed. Poseidon is the aether; is the quantum soup; is Bohm's implicate order. So any 'sense' associated with Neptune would
presumably have something to do with the abilty to manipulate this world-ocean/quantum soup thing.
Any 'sense' associated with Uranus would, presumably, involve being able to see through the maya (illusion, light, magic) and 'perceive', 'experience' the Universe proper.
To get more clues I would suggest seeing what Neptune and Uranus influence in astrology.
The Buddha, I believe, activated his 8th chakra which resides above the head. In effect he has completed the octave. He is now on the first note of the next octave.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

Grey Cloud
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:41 am

Hi Mague,
I don't see how you get mental discipline as a synonym for articial. The mental discipline I meant was that required to live your life, day in, day out, according to certain standards which you have set yourself, rather than merely concentrating or thinking.
Mozart was quite correct to say that he didn't compose the music. No human has ever invented anything because everything always was, is and will be. We realise potential.

You asked should we separate the gross from the subtle. It's not compulsory for an individual to attempt it, but the possiblity is there if one chooses to. The separation will come about in any case via the cycles/ages/yugas.

I understand where you are coming from with the paragraph about the human question-answer session with god. But, I would ask why would we need to learn hot/cold, love/hate etc? These are relative terms which exist only in our relative, physical universe. There is no need for them in the objective Universe. If you are omniscient what is there to learn?

Thanks for the Beethoven and the lyric, which I hadn't read before.
Glad as the sun His will sent plying
Through the vast abyss of space.
Brothers run your joyous race,
Hero-like to conquest flying.
Note the hero part.

The question is: Who or what is answering ?
You answer. Some alchemists call it the Great King, Plato called it the higher mind. It's Jiminy Cricket in Pinocchio. Suck it and see.

I suppose that in a way you are correct with the ant colony analogy - as above, so below.

I suppose my point about Tammet was what does his ability do for him. Does it help him to advance?
I wonder why the number 9 causes him emotional stress. In numerology, nine is three triplicities and the number of humanity (as in 666=18=9).
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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