Cautionary Note

Plasma formations in the ancient sky. The role of planets as charged bodies in these formations. Ground-rules for drawing reliable conclusions. A new approach to the mythic archetypes: is a unified theory of world mythology possible?
Plasmatic
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Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Plasmatic » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:20 am

I believe that Britain was far more advanced than many of the European groups, or at least contemporary with them, and that Britain was the centre of learning for Europe long before, and at the beginning of Roman advancement into Britain.
As regards pre-Roman Britain, I think that Celtic civilisation (there's that word again) covered much of Western Europe including Britain and that travel/trade between the various regions was more extensive than is currently held by academics who are hidebound by Darwinism.
Hi Muser and welcome aboard.

Since were kind of off point anyway:
I agree that Roman involvement in Britain is way overblown and for political reasons. The Khumry [wrongly called celtic] where quite advanced and actually kicked Romes ass in most of their battles. Adrian Gilberts book THE HOLY KINGDOM is relevent here as well as his co authors works Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett. Whats interesting is that The Roman erasure of the Welsh history was begun with Vespasian and Titus Flavius at the Helm. Theres another culture for whom the Romans created a false culture for the same reasons ,and guess who was at the helm....Vespasian an Flavius Titus.. Joe Atwill's work is relevent hear.
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle

Grey Cloud
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Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:24 am

Vespasian and Titus Flavius were the same person, i.e. Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasius (Emperor Vespasian). He had two sons named Titus Flavius Vespasianus (Emperor Titus) and Titus Flavius Domitianus (Emperor Domitian). Vespasian was in Britain but not the two sons methinks.
I agree that Roman involvement in Britain is way overblown and for political reasons.
Not sure what you mean by this.

The word 'khumry' which is a new one on me (and Google) sounds like 'cymry' which is Welsh for Wales, the commonly cited roots are Celti or Celtae and Keltai or Keltoi. The Welsh did not surface as a distinct people until after the Romans left (I may be wrong on that) but in any case, the Welsh were only a small part of the Celts.
Gilbert and the other authors mentioned aren't historians. Arthur is semi-legendary and was in any case post-Roman, that is to say he was not ancient but early medieval.
In the Lord of the Rings trilogy, Welsh was used for the language of the Elves.
There were others on these islands before the Celts.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

Plasmatic
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Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Plasmatic » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:18 am

Im referring to Vespasian and his son Titus who was made leader of his army. Both of course are Flavians. The word Khumry or Kimmerians is in no way connected to the word celtic or keltoi. This is part of the falsity im talking about. Look into the books I mentioned. It was even outlawed to speak welsh in parliament or teach welsh in schools.

Titus the son was indeed in Britain:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/3678/FLAV2.htm

It uses the popular "celt" but its good stuff. Lets continue any further off forum.
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle

Grey Cloud
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Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:43 am

I stand corrected - the son was indeed in Britain.
The word Khumry or Kimmerians is in no way connected to the word celtic or keltoi. This is part of the falsity im talking about. Look into the books I mentioned. It was even outlawed to speak welsh in parliament or teach welsh in schools.
What relevance then has the word 'khumry' if it is nothing to do with the Celts? And while we are at it, what has parliament and schools got to do with either the Celts or the Romans?
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

Plasmatic
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:14 pm

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Plasmatic » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:48 am

Lets go PM on this stuff.
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle

seasmith
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by seasmith » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: ...(Encouraging) Note
by Plasmatic on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:48 pm

Lets go PM on this stuff.
~ OR, start another thread.
This dialogue is interesting, and a legitimate avenue into the roots of ancient Myth.

~

Grey Cloud
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Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:15 am

Just for the record I am not overly bothered about my thread(s) going off-topic. To me knowledge is knowledge and should be followed wherever the path leads. Sometimes taking the round about way yields unanticIpated benefits.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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Tina
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Location: NSW Australia

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Tina » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:05 pm

Grey Cloud wrote: To me knowledge is knowledge and should be followed wherever the path leads.
Just wondering what your thoughts are on Sumerain 'Mythology' which claims the gods were actual physical entities (ET's) who genetically engineered the human.

Grey Cloud
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Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:58 pm

Tina wrote:
Just wondering what your thoughts are on Sumerain 'Mythology' which claims the gods were actual physical entities (ET's) who genetically engineered the human.
And what might your source for this be? Sitchin perchance? :roll:
Assuming that the claim is correct, then these ETs must have also taught us alchemy because that is what the Epic of Gilgamesh is about. :shock: The Descent of Ishtar is also an alchemical tale. (As are the Iliad, the Odyssey and countless other stories from around the world).
I don't know Sumerian mythology that well as it is fragmentary and not easy to read or understand. However, I don't really subscribe to the notion of 'aliens' doing stuff on Earth, nor do I put much credence into genetic engineering whether terrestrial or extraterrestrial.
This physical, material universe which science, The Church of Weights and Measures, thinks it will reduce to an 'elegant' equation, is not the Universe. This universe is maya (illusion, light, magic) and we, which you call humans, are part of that which created it and are part of that which is maintaining it. We are being human, or, as the Orphics had it:
"I am a child of Earth and of Starry Heaven;
But my race is of Heaven alone".

The foremost god of the Sumerians is An or Anu (the sky or heavens) and his chief consort is Ki (the Earth). An's other consorts include Nammu (the primeval waters) and Uras who is another earth-goddess.
Compare and contrast that with the Genesis and god separating the waters of the heaven from the waters of the Earth, the firmament etc.

All these 'gods' of all these mythologies are, in essence, no different than you or I. They are as much a part of creation as we are. All the mythologies tell you that - even the 'Creator' is created. :?
Formless no-thing.
Precedent of heaven and earth.
Timeless, unchanging, solitary, silent.
It is the mother of the ten thousand things.

I do not know its name.
I call it Tao.
If forced to describe it,
I call it great.

Great implies vast reaches.
Vast reaches implies far away.
Far away implies return.

Tao is great.
Heaven is great.
Earth is great.
Man, too, is great.
In the realm there are four greats,
and a noble man is one.

Man follows the way of Earth.
Earth follows the way of Heaven.
Heaven follows the way of Tao.
Tao is the great Way.

I Ching 25, Bart Marshall trans.
But even the Dao was created. :shock:

We don't need aliens and genetic engineering and we don't need a cabal of evil uber-capitalists, nor, on the other side of the coin, do we need Jesus, the Buddha, Lord Krishna or King Arthur. There is nothing to blame anyone for and nothing for anyone to save us from. It's a D.I.Y. universe - all you have to do is to ask yourself to remember.
Trust me, I'm a god. ;)
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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Tina
Posts: 167
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Location: NSW Australia

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Tina » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:39 am

Grey Cloud wrote:
And what might your source for this be? Sitchin perchance? :roll:

We don't need aliens and genetic engineering and we don't need a cabal of evil uber-capitalists, nor, on the other side of the coin, do we need Jesus, the Buddha, Lord Krishna or King Arthur. There is nothing to blame anyone for and nothing for anyone to save us from.
Trust me, I'm a god. ;)
Ooooops :oops: Sitchin has been entertaining me with some fanciful stories...but Myths suggest that the human has had a propensity to embelish reality.

mague
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 2:44 am

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by mague » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:54 am

Grey Cloud wrote: Trust me, I'm a god. ;)
I like the Advaita version more :)

God likes to watch himself through the human eyes...

seasmith
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Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by seasmith » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:48 pm

~
Grey Cloud wrote:
Ooooops Sitchin has been entertaining me with some fanciful stories...
Sitchen does cover and awfull lot hypothetical ground in 6 or 8 books but, to the
Dating Question, he does offer (in the last couple chapters of "Cosmic Code") some of the best correlated events in the 1st millenium BC; using actual historical events like invasions, seiges and conquests as described in Babylonian-Assyrian stellae and Egyptian and Hebrew texts. The dates are further synchronized by reigns of (real) kings.
Even in that relatively recent era, by all the quoted accounts, human-like gods were routinely said to walk with men in real (since excavated) cities.
That era is notable because it is after humans began to write in real time, and before the Greeks took older legend and turned it in to an interminable fugue of miniseries.

~

Grey Cloud
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Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:01 pm

mague wrote:
Grey Cloud wrote: Trust me, I'm a god. ;)
I like the Advaita version more :)

God likes to watch himself through the human eyes...
Not through mine He wouldn't, mine are worn out.
'I don't have to look at the world through rose-tinted spectacles - my eyes are naturally bloodshot'.
Last edited by Grey Cloud on Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

Grey Cloud
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:29 pm

seasmith wrote:~
Grey Cloud wrote:
Ooooops Sitchin has been entertaining me with some fanciful stories...
Sitchen does cover and awfull lot hypothetical ground in 6 or 8 books but, to the
Dating Question, he does offer (in the last couple chapters of "Cosmic Code") some of the best correlated events in the 1st millenium BC; using actual historical events like invasions, seiges and conquests as described in Babylonian-Assyrian stellae and Egyptian and Hebrew texts. The dates are further synchronized by reigns of (real) kings.
Even in that relatively recent era, by all the quoted accounts, human-like gods were routinely said to walk with men in real (since excavated) cities.
That era is notable because it is after humans began to write in real time, and before the Greeks took older legend and turned it in to an interminable fugue of miniseries.

~
Hi Seasmith, that was actually Tina who wrote the Ooooops line but I'll bite anyway.
Is there any chance you could post up some or all of these dates? Or point me to somewhere on the web where they are set out? I would be very interested to see how they fit in with my ideas.
I'm guessing that what Sitchin calls human-like gods are what other folk call heroes. If you could furnish a name or three I would have a better idea of where he is coming from. If he is talking about heroes, e.g. Gilgamesh, then these can be explained without recourse to extraterrestrials. In fact they have been explained for thousands of years.
It is not just the Greeks who turned myth into 'an interminable fugue of miniseries'. The Egyptian mythology is convoluted and complicated, and older than the Greek. The Mayan and others from the Americas are the same and as for the Hindu stuff......
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

mague
Posts: 781
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 2:44 am

Re: Cautionary Note

Unread post by mague » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:09 am

Well, the question is: What is a manlike god ?

I saw a documentation on national TV last week about Daniel Tammet This guy is amazing and one of probably 10 people worldwide with such abilities. The big difference between him and people like Kim Peek is, that he is behaving normal and is able to describe whats happening in his mind. Just like the guy next door.

Obi Wan would say: The force is strong in this one ;)

But seriously, if we put the dogma "god = ominpotence" aside, then such people are god sent. If this is part of the evolution we might see people with minds like Daniel Tammet or Kim Peek combined with telekinetic abilities. Would those be manlike gods compared to homo sapiens ?

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