LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

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Michael Mozina
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LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:17 am

This current run should be a very interesting run for LIGO/Virgo. After considerable down time to complete major upgrades, in just a couple of week of operation of the new observation run, they've already they've put out two notices of signals which they interpret to be BH-BH related events. These signal are apparently observed in all three detectors. The addition of the Virgo detector allows them to isolate the direction of the signal with much greater accuracy, making it much easier to verify the event in the EM spectrum. At the moment they appear to be 0 for 2 in terms of verification in the EM spectrum.

I'm more than happy to give LIGO credit for any event that enjoys multimessenger support, but thus far only one such event has occurred. I still have grave doubts however about LIGO's BH-BH merger claims as to cause of quick "chirp" like signals. So called "blip transients" have routinely been observed in single detectors so some external local events are capable of generating similar signals. Sensitivity enhancements open up the possibility for multiple detectors to observe such local "blip transients' too, possibly in 2 or even 3 detectors.

Assuming that LIGO is correct about the celestial origin of these signals, hopefully their triangulation improvements with Virgo, and their sensitivity improvements/enhancements will soon pay off. The triangulation improvements alone should allow other astronomers to more quickly search more restricted regions of the sky for EM confirmation of a celestial origin of these signals. The sensitivity enhancements should also ensure that LIGO should have many more opportunities to demonstrate multi-messenger types of events.

From a skeptics perspective the BH-BH "chirp" signals are more problematic than other types of potential signals that LIGO might detect. The LIGO detectors have a long history of detecting "blip transients" that often resemble these types of chirp-like wave forms. The only way for BH-BH mergers to be 'invisible' on the EM spectrum is for every BH-BH merger to occur between two 'naked' (no accretion disk) singularities, which seems rather unlikely. The better triangulation capabilities and sensitivity enhancements should make it possible to better "test" alternative explanations as to the cause of these signals since there should be more events to work with, and better triangulation methods in terms of the overall direction of the signal. If these quick "chip" events are caused by atmospheric discharge related phenomenon, then we might expect to see evidence of that connection in the data sets over time. The more times they put out notices, the more opportunity there will be to test a *variety* of possible causes.

crawler
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by crawler » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:09 pm

Reg Cahill found a coincidental happening.

LIGO Gravitational Wave Event as Observed by Network of Quantum Gravity Detectors
ReginaldT. Cahill – March 2016.
4 Data from Quantum Gravity Detectors
We now reveal the data from the GCP network [9] of Quantum Gravity Detectors, known as Random Event Generators (REG),but with better physics now known as Quantum Gravity Detectors (QGD).The LIGO event occurred at 9:50:45hrs UTC on September 14, 2015. Data from that day was downloaded from [10], which has data every 1 sec recorded against UTC for 47 detectors located in numerous countries.. An issue with these commercial detectors is that the orientation of the diodes is unknown, which means that the effect of the angle dependence k*v = kv cos() in (3) is unknown. So a detector response may vary from a decreased E, and so decreased signal, or an increased E and an increased signal, or even an unchanged E resulting in no change in signal. For this reason the data from the various detectors is split into three groups, and shown in Figs.5, 6, 7. The data in Figs.5 and 6 show a remarkable coincidence with the LIGO event, subject to the 1 sec nominal tim-ing of the QGD data. However the data in Fig.5, Top, also shows another significant effect, namely in-phase responses of the detectors in the 2 secs before and after the LIGO event. The LIGO report-ed data [1] does not reveal data during these times. Overall it is not possible to determine the origin of this event other than it could be consistent with a major Earth centred mass movement.
5 Conclusion
Most of physics of the last 100 years has been confused by the design flaw in the Michelson interferometer, but that is now understood, and the light speed anisotropy of +- 500km/s has been repeatedly measured by using numerous techniques, and so invalidating the key assumption of SR and GR, and the supposed existence of spacetime [5]. A dynamical space does exist, and plays a key role in all phenomena. Dynamical space is the cause of gravity, a quantum phenomenon, as confirmed by experiment [8]. The QGD network, fortuitously run by the Global Consciousness Project (GCP), has confirmed the existence of a space flow event, but whose interpretation by LIGO remains doubtful. Note that the events in the 2 sec interval before and after the LIGO event, in Figs.5 and 6, are inconsistent with the black hole merger interpretation. We are now entering an era of new physics.

Michael Mozina
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:32 am

https://www.space.com/ligo-observes-bla ... -week.html
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/aon8Q ... 970-80.jpg

If you look at the "artist's depiction" of black holes merging, you'll see they both have an accretion disk around the objects. If that's actually how it worked, we'd certainly see plasma interactions from the accretion disks.
Only the gravitational-wave sensors seem to have detected the two events, which suggests they are collisions of two black holes. A collision of two neutron stars or a mixed collision would produce a light signature as well as gravitational waves.

The new observing period, dubbed O3, will last for about a year.
So essentially the new "consensus" is that black hole mergers *always* take place between 'naked' black holes (no accretion disks) and we can expect them to be 'invisible' every single time. :(

This is the "moving the goalposts" type of nonsense that frosts my cookies. Instead of questioning their assumption that such signals are cosmological in nature due to a lack of visual verification, they simply modify their expectations and away they go.

The only "good" thing from my perspective is that the 03 run is scheduled to continue for a full year. At the rate they're going, there should be close to 50 such events observed over that time period, all localized to a much smaller region of the sky. That should eventually make it easier to trace the real cause back to it's source, or give LIGO plenty of opportunities to verify one of these BH-BH mergers with other instruments. It seems pretty darn suspicious that *all* of them would involve "naked' singularities.

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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:59 am

Sorry, I posted something to the wrong thread. :)

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Zyxzevn
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:16 pm

They probably think that they increased the statistical significance of the signals,
by combining all detectors together.
So I guess they have lowered the standards for a "success".

Due to the resonance effect in which we can see many chirps together at
different frequencies, I suspect that there is a huge problem with the
detection and filter itself. It is clear that it can give false positives,
even many at the same time.
It degrades all other "observations" to a failure, until they have found the
exact cause of these multiple chirps.

Additionally, the detector is built exactly like a receiver of low frequency EM-waves.
And chirps are very common in EM-waves, so I suspect they found some of those.
They can also come in groups, so we can even solve the resonance problem with that.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

crawler
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by crawler » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:23 am

Their chirps are possibly due due to harmonics/resonance from their calibration signals. They use lots of regular calibration signals.

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neilwilkes
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by neilwilkes » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:12 am

crawler wrote:Reg Cahill found a coincidental happening.

LIGO Gravitational Wave Event as Observed by Network of Quantum Gravity Detectors
ReginaldT. Cahill – March 2016.
4 Data from Quantum Gravity Detectors
We now reveal the data from the GCP network [9] of Quantum Gravity Detectors, known as Random Event Generators (REG),but with better physics now known as Quantum Gravity Detectors (QGD).The LIGO event occurred at 9:50:45hrs UTC on September 14, 2015. Data from that day was downloaded from [10], which has data every 1 sec recorded against UTC for 47 detectors located in numerous countries.. An issue with these commercial detectors is that the orientation of the diodes is unknown, which means that the effect of the angle dependence k*v = kv cos() in (3) is unknown. So a detector response may vary from a decreased E, and so decreased signal, or an increased E and an increased signal, or even an unchanged E resulting in no change in signal. For this reason the data from the various detectors is split into three groups, and shown in Figs.5, 6, 7. The data in Figs.5 and 6 show a remarkable coincidence with the LIGO event, subject to the 1 sec nominal tim-ing of the QGD data. However the data in Fig.5, Top, also shows another significant effect, namely in-phase responses of the detectors in the 2 secs before and after the LIGO event. The LIGO report-ed data [1] does not reveal data during these times. Overall it is not possible to determine the origin of this event other than it could be consistent with a major Earth centred mass movement.
5 Conclusion
Most of physics of the last 100 years has been confused by the design flaw in the Michelson interferometer, but that is now understood, and the light speed anisotropy of +- 500km/s has been repeatedly measured by using numerous techniques, and so invalidating the key assumption of SR and GR, and the supposed existence of spacetime [5]. A dynamical space does exist, and plays a key role in all phenomena. Dynamical space is the cause of gravity, a quantum phenomenon, as confirmed by experiment [8]. The QGD network, fortuitously run by the Global Consciousness Project (GCP), has confirmed the existence of a space flow event, but whose interpretation by LIGO remains doubtful. Note that the events in the 2 sec interval before and after the LIGO event, in Figs.5 and 6, are inconsistent with the black hole merger interpretation. We are now entering an era of new physics.
Can you please, please post a link to the source?
The conclusion is particularly interesting........
You will never get a man to understand something his salary depends on him not understanding.

Michael Mozina
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:21 am

Zyxzevn wrote:Additionally, the detector is built exactly like a receiver of low frequency EM-waves.
And chirps are very common in EM-waves, so I suspect they found some of those.
That's my biggest concern frankly. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see a correlation between BH-BH merger claims and powerful electrical atmospheric discharges. Their ability to triangulate better only turns up the heat to provide multi-messenger support for these kinds of events. They can't *always* occur between two "naked' black holes. Some of them have to have accretion disks, and such disks should interact during the merger process. As more detectors come online, and they can better triangulate the signal to even tighter constraints, they really don't have anymore logical excuses as to why such events aren't possible to verify in the EM spectrum.

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Zyxzevn
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:31 am

The list of found GW detections
https://gcn.gsfc.nasa.gov/gcn3_archive.html#tc1
There are about 500 of them in one year.

Even if you believe in GW and black holes, it is clear that
there are some false positives in that list.
And without knowing the cause of these false positives, one can not
be certain about any positive.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

Michael Mozina
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:03 am

Zyxzevn wrote:The list of found GW detections
https://gcn.gsfc.nasa.gov/gcn3_archive.html#tc1
There are about 500 of them in one year.

Even if you believe in GW and black holes, it is clear that
there are some false positives in that list.
And without knowing the cause of these false positives, one can not
be certain about any positive.
The necessary next step will be linking the false positives to other types of local events. Once that happens, all bets are off in terms of the veracity of various LIGO claims. The one observed NS-NS multi-messenger event might survive that kind of revelation, but I suspect that all of the BH-BH claims will eventually go up in smoke.

crawler
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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by crawler » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:37 pm

neilwilkes wrote:
crawler wrote:Reg Cahill found a coincidental happening.

LIGO Gravitational Wave Event as Observed by Network of Quantum Gravity Detectors
ReginaldT. Cahill – March 2016.
4 Data from Quantum Gravity Detectors
We now reveal the data from the GCP network [9] of Quantum Gravity Detectors, known as Random Event Generators (REG),but with better physics now known as Quantum Gravity Detectors (QGD).The LIGO event occurred at 9:50:45hrs UTC on September 14, 2015. Data from that day was downloaded from [10], which has data every 1 sec recorded against UTC for 47 detectors located in numerous countries.. An issue with these commercial detectors is that the orientation of the diodes is unknown, which means that the effect of the angle dependence k*v = kv cos() in (3) is unknown. So a detector response may vary from a decreased E, and so decreased signal, or an increased E and an increased signal, or even an unchanged E resulting in no change in signal. For this reason the data from the various detectors is split into three groups, and shown in Figs.5, 6, 7. The data in Figs.5 and 6 show a remarkable coincidence with the LIGO event, subject to the 1 sec nominal tim-ing of the QGD data. However the data in Fig.5, Top, also shows another significant effect, namely in-phase responses of the detectors in the 2 secs before and after the LIGO event. The LIGO report-ed data [1] does not reveal data during these times. Overall it is not possible to determine the origin of this event other than it could be consistent with a major Earth centred mass movement.
5 Conclusion
Most of physics of the last 100 years has been confused by the design flaw in the Michelson interferometer, but that is now understood, and the light speed anisotropy of +- 500km/s has been repeatedly measured by using numerous techniques, and so invalidating the key assumption of SR and GR, and the supposed existence of spacetime [5]. A dynamical space does exist, and plays a key role in all phenomena. Dynamical space is the cause of gravity, a quantum phenomenon, as confirmed by experiment [8]. The QGD network, fortuitously run by the Global Consciousness Project (GCP), has confirmed the existence of a space flow event, but whose interpretation by LIGO remains doubtful. Note that the events in the 2 sec interval before and after the LIGO event, in Figs.5 and 6, are inconsistent with the black hole merger interpretation. We are now entering an era of new physics.
Can you please, please post a link to the source?
The conclusion is particularly interesting........
http://vixra.org/pdf/1603.0232v1.pdf

Cahill has detected what he calls gravity waves by using zenor diodes in Adelaide & London, the GWs travelling south to north at 500 kmps, the GWs being a turbulence in the dynamic space (or quantum foam)(Cahill is a professor hencely steers clear of aether). LIGOs supposed GWs travel supposedly at c.
I think that in this article Cahill does not say that the event was one of his GWs, i think he attributes the turbulence to something happening in Earth (in which case any associated "GW"turbulence could rise to the surface at a pseudo high speed, praps pseudo c, praps pseudo instantaneously if coming from dead center, dunno)(my words).

Michael Mozina
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This operating run could make or break LIGO

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:29 pm

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-bri ... ar-merger/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... tron-star/
Gravitational waves may have just delivered the first sighting of a black hole devouring a neutron star. If confirmed, it would be the first evidence of the existence of such binary systems. The news comes just a day after astronomers had detected gravitational waves from a merger of two neutron stars for only the second time.
To LIGO's credit, they certainly aren't being bashful about making merger claims involving neutrons stars and putting their data online as quickly as possible.

It seems like a make-or-break run for LIGO-VIRGO. They've committed themselves to making the announcements as soon as possible. The only thing that remains to be seen now is whether they get any multimessenger hits. Will it be one big "cry wolf" run, or will some of these events be confirmed? Is it even reasonable to expect that *all* BH-BH merger events are *always* 'invisible' to other telescopes?

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Re: LIGO/Virgo, BH-BH mergers and recent upgrades

Unread post by ja7tdo » Fri May 03, 2019 9:10 pm

hi,
please read my post before.

LIGO detected not the gravity wave but the SLF wave
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 10&t=16909

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