Charge separation

[Zyxzevn]

While the mainstream believes in magnetic fields frozen in plasma,
physics tells us that even magnetic fields need electric currents.
The EU also identifies a lot of gigantic electrical currents in many places in the universe.

So let's first identify the different places where we see strong currents.

Places of strong currents

1) Sun: plasma-ropes on the sun
2) Sun: Surface layer of the sun (EU-model)
3) Sun: Birkeland Currents between sun and planets.
4) Sun: Double layers (are caused by strong currents)
5) Galaxy: plasma beams from "black holes"
6) Galaxy: Birkeland currents in spokes of galaxy. (EU-model)
7) Galaxy: plasma-ropes between galaxies. (EU-model)

What drives the electric currents?

These currents need to be driven by something.

Power:
And for simplicity I assume that the power comes mainly from nuclear reactions.

Changing magnetic fields:
When magnetic fields are changing, they can generate currents that try to
maintain the magnetic fields.
Yet change of magnetic fields does not happen much.
And we still need something that started the magnetic field in the first place.

Movement through static magnetic field:
Also we can get currents from movement through a static magnetic field.
The power for this comes from the movement itself, and causes a magnetic breaking.
If planets would be affected strongly by a magnetic field, they would spiral towards the sun.
The same is for stars in a galaxy.
The power and energy loss is extremely low, so I ignore this option.

Separated charges:
If there is a difference in charge between objects, this will create
a current when there is enough plasma connecting the objects.
The plasma can work as a conductor for the current, and increase in
conductivity as it is a semi-conductor.
The current also removes the difference in charge.
So for a consistent current, we need something that is maintaining a
charge-difference.

Methods for charge separation

A. Ejection of matter

Electrons have very different mass than positive ions.
So they will be more sensitive to electric and magnetic fields.
A stream of plasma moving through a magnetic field will automatically
create some charge-separation.
Positive and negative particles go in different ways in a magnetic field.
This can happen even in neutral plasma. In Birkeland Currents we can see
spiralling of plasma that can be created by this effect.

> I think this happens both on the sun and in the centre of a galaxy.
The solar wind and galactic wind will have a slightly difference in charge compared
to the source.
> The magnetic field will also influence the direction of the expelled plasma.

B. Radiation

Radiation may push electrons far away from the atoms.
This effect is already used to generate electricity or start electro-chemical reactions.
The same is with heat.

> This process is probably active during nuclear reactions.
This is the first step of charge-separation on the sun or in a galaxy.

C. Collisions and friction

When matter bumps into other matter, it can create electrical charges via
friction and piezo-electric effects.
In a van-de-graaff generator we can clearly see the effect of friction.
In this generator also collects the charge, which is why their voltage can be so high.

> I think that, in granules on the sun, when the gas moves upward through the
liquid surface, it creates a van-de-graaff generator like phenomenon.
This means that the charge and temperature of the centre of a granule is
very different from the border. And this can create a sustained charge-difference
on the surface, between each granule centre and its edge.
> Sunspots are gigantic versions of granules, and are of different charge. Between
the sunspots plasma-ropes are formed to conduct the electric currents.

D. Chemical reactions

Chemical reactions can cause charge separation. Just like in batteries.

> These take place on the sun, as we can learn from Robitaille's lectures.



Combining them all

There are many ways to do it, but let me give it a try.

1. We first start with a nuclear reaction.
2. This nuclear reaction creates a charge-separation due to radiation.
3. Matter is also ejected. On the sun this increases the voltage, and the granules.
4. In a galaxy-centre and on the sun the charged matter is ejected in different directions
due to the magnetic field.
5. Matter ejected in a plasma beam increases the voltage even more.
6. On the sun, chemical reactions create a new layer of charge.
7. The chemical released charge discharges itself with the electrons that come
back from a different direction.
8. The different processes create different layers on the sun'.

Special case

If the current becomes very strong, they can initiate new nuclear reactions.
This can be the driving force behind solar flares.
In galactic plasma beams this nuclear reaction is even sustained, so it may
be very similar to a continuous solar flare.

[Webbman]

whats a magnetic field made out of?

a magnetic field wont ionize matter (charge separation) but a current will. A current can also generate a magnetic field and you can generate a current from a magnetic field by passing a conductor through it.

therefore magnetic fields use a different mechanism than traditional circuits.

of course ionized matter will travel magnetic fields so there much be some relationship.

so if you think about it that relationship must be a structure with high voltage but no or very little current to satisfy its behavior.

how is this possible?

[Zyxzevn]

I forgot to add that many of the mainstream reported magnetic fields can be
electrical fields too. As they have very similar characteristics.
We can see this on the sun already, where plasma-currents move between different
charged areas. These areas which are visible as sub-spots can have very strong electrical fields
due to the double layers caused by the currents.
The strength of the magnetic fields can be determined by the strengths of the
magnetic field at the horizontal part of the currents. This strength is constant
over the whole length of the current.
Sadly the mainstream illogically believes that the magnetic fields are localized
to the sun-spots and that they have no driving electrical currents that are visible.

whats a magnetic field made out of?

Moving electrical fields, caused by moving charges (=currents).

of course ionized matter will travel magnetic fields

Only when the matter is moving.
Also: If the matter is neutral the charges within the matter will go different ways.
That is why I added it as cause for charge-separation.

so if you think about it that relationship must be a structure with high voltage but no or very little current to satisfy its behavior.

The magnetic fields (that the mainstream thinks it found) require very strong electrical currents.
About 10^10 amps. And they have not even a source for that.

I had forgotten to add it to my post, but I think that most of the magnetic fields are electrical fields.
(I added the explanation on top of this reply.)
And this would require almost no current, as it is a far more stable situation.

But in whatever way you look at at, the currents still need:
1) something powerful to drive them (I suggest nuclear fusion).
2) some charge separation (via radiation and movement through magnetic fields).

This is about the stable situation as it is now on the sun or in a galaxy.
This situation might have changed in the past with huge currents going through
the solar system or galaxy. This is described in a lot of EU posts.
But I think it is easier to look at what we can see now.
Especially on the sun.

If the sun is like Birkelands electrical model, or even Jurgen's model,
there will be charges going from one place to another.
Moving charges that are plasma currents, like birkeland currents.
In this thread, I try to identify how these charges got separated in the first place.

So if you have a nuclear reaction in the sun, how does this cause a plasma-current on the sun?

And how does the sun's photosphere show a continuous flow of electrons, as if there is a current?

And how does a plasma beam from a galaxy-centre (sometimes called "black hole"), get its beam shape?

The mainstream refuses to answer these questions with good science.
And I think that the EU /plasmacosmology can have very good scientific explanations of these
electrical phenomena.

[kodybatill]

so if you think about it that relationship must be a structure with high voltage but no or very little current to satisfy its behavior.

how is this possible?

What I am about to say may not be THE answer - but when Inert Gas Hydrate information is equal in energy with phase-changes between Sub-atomic elements - more than one type of phase change can exist in the same exact place and time. This is also an energetic phenomena because of the existence of Near-infra red Inert Gas Hydrates. When I say Near-infra red, that is specifically the North of a single Phonon unit, or unit of sound - as opposed to it's south.

[Michael Mozina]

The mainstream refuses to answer these questions with good science.
And I think that the EU /plasmacosmology can have very good scientific explanations of these
electrical phenomena.

That's because they can't answer those questions with "good science" without embracing electricity.

Nature (and humans) have one sure known way to heat plasma on Earth to millions of degrees in the atmosphere of Earth, namely electrical discharges. The moment astronomers look beyond the Earth's atmosphere for a "cause" of million degree plasma in the atmosphere of larger bodies in space (like the sun), they immediate evoke a process that has no business being evoked in the first place.

MRx is a nightmare of a solution. It doesn't work in the lab to produce a sustained hot corona or a sustained hot plasma of any sort, at least not without a sustained current. Both SAFIRE and Birkeland were able to reproduce a sustained hot corona and a sustained aurora using circuit theory, but that has never been done, and never will be done with magnetic reconnection.

The mainstream doesn't have any real answers to offer, just metaphysical dogma and handwavy nonsense that never works in a lab and has nothing to do with "natural" processes that are known to occur "naturally" on Earth.

Just look at the endless funds that have been *poured* into dark matter research. They've literally spent billions of dollars trying to convince us that there's a problem with the standard model of particle physics and they have absolutely nothing to show for it.

They aren't really looking for real scientific answers, they're looking for ways to protect their paychecks and their professional reputations. It's akin to watching the Ptolemy "faithful" extol the endless virtues of epicycles while bashing on heliocentric proponents for being "idiots". Their downfall is inevitable, but they're fighting it tooth and nail and they have a lot of vested interest in *not* finding any real solutions to anything. That's why their model is self conflicted with respect to the rate of expansion, their solar models can't explain the gamma rays from the sun, and 95 percent of their beliefs are nothing but placeholder terms for human ignorance.

[hlg]

if we want o find a solution in real world physics we have to look at the small scale processes and a reliable thought-model.

my model looks like this:

when nasa trained their astraunauts forzero gravity they used huge water tanks, where the whole set was afloat...

its this kind of space that we are dealing with. intead of water there is aether...

and all matter in it are steam-bubbles with much less watermolecules in it, very dynamically changing shape and molecules, condensing and evaporating on the bubble boundary, reacting on every pressure and temperature-change...

swirls and rotation ease the birth of bubbles...

like water molecules the aether-particles must have strong electric polarisation and asymmetric shape...

so that stable positive bubble-boundaries are way larger than negative ones. these bubbles are the subatomic building blocks... and they emerge with huge effects on each other...

electric and magnetic fields are the disturbances in the orientation of these tighly compressed aether-particles between these bubbles...

like the astraunauts in the tank, we focus on the bubbles and forget about the water and the tank...

the sun must be thought of as a gigantic bubble with an unimaginable pressure drop in the aether on its boundary...