gas giant color schemes

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promethean
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Re: gas giant color schemes

Unread post by promethean » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:37 am

Despite the atmospheres of the Jovian planets similarities,(mainly H and He), they exhibit different
color schemes...is this an artifact of the charge field ?

Re: Distances in Astronomy?

Postby 601L1n9FR09 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:46 pm
About the only thing I see lacking from the work of Katirai is the prospect that the bodies seen so far away from the primaries have too little sunlight to reflect. In EU/PC they can be emitting light in plasma glow mode.


nick c wrote:hi promethean,
The mainstream still thinks the light of the gas giants is reflected from the sun...
Well, so do I. It seems that most of what we see of the gas giants is reflected sunlight. That's not excluding the possibility that some small portion might be a plasma glow, but by in large it is reflected sunlight. This can be shown by the fact that they exhibit a slight gibbous phase, as seen from Earth when the Sun, and the outer planet are appropriately positioned. The limb darkening on one side, seems to me, to prove that they are shining by reflected sunlight.

I have read that the planets radiate more energy than they receive from the sun...
so how much "some small portion" of plasma glow ?
and how big is the sun in the sky of Saturn anyway ?
Thanks for your thoughts...(should this thread be elsewhere ?)
"History teaches everything,even the future." Alphonse de Lamartine (1790-1869)

promethean
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Re: gas giant color schemes

Unread post by promethean » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:13 am

Re: Distances in Astronomy?

Postby 601L1n9FR09 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:35 pm
Hi Lloyd,
If the blue stars that do not show up so well in IR (and are supposed to be hotter), who's to say these are not objects in glow mode plasma discharge , or whatever the terminology is? I will look again but as far as I can see the only issue I might have with Revolution in Astronomy is that it did not address the problem that objects too remote from their primary have far too little light to reflect (from the primary). If these objects are self illuminated by means of plasma in glow mode, that issue is resolved. In short EU/PC reconciles what little I found lacking.

postby sjw40364 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:43 am
Even emitting in IR may not mean a star per se. They say Brown Dwarf stars fuse Deuterium instead of hydrogen. Regardless, but in an EU universe even planets are connected to the circuit. Magnetic Induction is becoming quite a common use for cooking, I expect there is a lot going on in the center of planets and stars to make their centers hot. Of course so far the only large planets I have seen all have gaseous atmospheres.With enough current those gases could easily glow, so i guess the EU needs to define what constitutes a star or planet.


promethean here
Again, I am in over my head with this issue of emitted vs. reflected light (and colors).
If it is not disputed that the sun's energies impinging upon the gas giant atmospheres have SOME effect ,
can those effects be quantified ?
HAPPY HOLIDAYS and thanks everyone for sharing your ideas... :D
"History teaches everything,even the future." Alphonse de Lamartine (1790-1869)

jjohnson
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Re: gas giant color schemes

Unread post by jjohnson » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:52 pm

Consider that increasing pressure with depth on a gas giant can cause liquid and possibly even solid phases to occur, which can scatter, absorb, reflect and refract E/M radiation ("light"). Clouds can be made of atmospheric gases in liquid droplet or crystalline ice forms, which readily reflect light. Our own atmosphere refracts and scatters light, which is precisely the reason that the sky tends to appear blue - blue light is scattered through a wider angle than longer wavelength red and orange, so blue appears to come from a higher angle in the sky, while red light at sunset or dawn can more readily come through the long horizontal column of atmospheric gas than the blue, shorter wavelengths.

Plus, with any gas giant having sizable fractions of chemical compounds in the atmosphere, such chemistries also affect the "color" composition of reflected light, through the process of preferential absorption as well as scattering at certain frequencies. This is why molecular clouds exhibit spectral dark lines in the starlight coming from stars beyond the clouds, and Neptune appears green.

When we observe the illuminated limb (curved edge) of Jupiter, or our own Earth, we are seeing the edge of light scattering. It can't scatter in the relatively empty space beyond the planetary atmosphere. If you examine the limb at great magnification, you can see that it's not typically a hard line, but transitions smoothly to the "black of space" from the lit-up atmosphere. The night side doesn't do this (much) because it is in shadow, so barring lightning or cities, there isn't much light to see on the dark side of a planet. On the other hand, although we can't "see" in infrared or UV or other EM wavelengths outside the visible, our instruments can, and those responses are routinely turned into images that are displayed in "false" colors that we CAN see, on paper or on-screen. Hence the beautiful images from radiotelescopes, Herschel and Spitzer, Chandra, etc.

Jim

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webolife
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Re: gas giant color schemes

Unread post by webolife » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:26 pm

What Jim said.

However, it is true to a fair degree that planetary colors are quantized, and this can be shown in a geometrical representation of the Bode pattern. Roughly speaking [there is a more precise relation than the number 2], Mercury is reddish, Venus is twice the distance to the sun and is reddish, Mars' orbit is twice Venus and is red, the most dense region of the asteroid belt is twice Mars' semi-major axis, and the objects found therein are red, twice that is reddish Jupiter, and twice that is yellowish [still on the red side of the spectrum] Saturn. The pattern breaks down once for green Uranus, which is twice the semi-major axis of Saturn, and returns to a significantly reddish Pluto, whose semi-major axis is twice that of Uranus along with apparently quite reddish other KBO's. The two planets that fall half-way between the other doubled orbits are Earth and Neptune, both blue planets. That Uranus apparently arrived catastrophically at it's current position from another location [perhaps in some kind of double planet pairing with Neptune] is suggested by its odd rotation angle, and might have some bearing on its non-redness. Alternatively, since Uranus falls half-way between Sol and its [presumably] outermost KBO planetoids, perhaps there is some connection to it's green color.

I find that the orbital geometry of the our planetary system [approximated by Bode's rule], along with the repeated color scheme, are too regular to be mere coincidence. Doesn't prove anything, but I sense the presence of a mathematical artist.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Spektralscavenger
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Re: gas giant color schemes

Unread post by Spektralscavenger » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:11 am

I formulate no hypothesis about it, I point out the order low energy light (Jupiter) to high energy light (neptune) isn´t a coincidence, and the closer to the sun and bigger planets having lower energy light is no coincidence either.

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