Electric Meteors and Meteorites

[Joe Keenan]

Is anyone other than me struck by the similarities between the structures found on the Antarctic metorite and the wormlike structures or Mars, the "Tunnels." I'm looking for some photos of the Tunnels on Mars, I remember seeing one that showed shocking similarities.

[junglelord]

Mark your calendar: The 2008 Perseid meteor shower peaks on August 12th and it should be a good show.

"The time to look is during the dark hours before dawn on Tuesday, August 12th," says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office at the Marshall Space Flight Center. "There should be plenty of meteors--perhaps one or two every minute."

The source of the shower is Comet Swift-Tuttle. Although the comet is far away, currently located beyond the orbit of Uranus, a trail of debris from the comet stretches all the way back to Earth. Crossing the trail in August, Earth will be pelted by specks of comet dust hitting the atmosphere at 132,000 mph. At that speed, even a flimsy speck of dust makes a vivid streak of light when it disintegrates--a meteor! Because, Swift-Tuttle's meteors streak out of the constellation Perseus, they are called "Perseids."

Serious meteor hunters will begin their watch early, on Monday evening, August 11th, around 9 pm when Perseus first rises in the northeast. This is the time to look for Perseid Earthgrazers--meteors that approach from the horizon and skim the atmosphere overhead like a stone skipping across the surface of a pond.

"Earthgrazers are long, slow and colorful; they are among the most beautiful of meteors," says Cooke. He cautions that an hour of watching may net only a few of these at most, but seeing even one can make the whole night worthwhile.

A warm summer night. Bright meteors skipping overhead. And the peak is yet to come. What could be better?

The answer lies halfway up the southern sky: Jupiter and the gibbous Moon converge on August 11th and 12th for a close encounter in the constellation Sagittarius: sky map. It's a grand sight visible even from light-polluted cities.

For a while the beautiful Moon will interfere with the Perseids, lunar glare wiping out all but the brightest meteors. Yin-yang. The situation reverses itself at 2 am on Tuesday morning, August 12th, when the Moon sets and leaves behind a dark sky for the Perseids. The shower will surge into the darkness, peppering the sky with dozens and perhaps hundreds of meteors until dawn.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... iddawn.htm

[redeye]

Hey, I posted a question regarding the standard explanation for meteor showers which got lost in the recent crash.

Basically, I feel the standard explanation of meteor showers seems a little odd. How can an encounter between the Earth and a stream of ionised dust produce such spectacular displays. I can't see how grains of dust can make it into the mesosphere and then burn up so energetically. If these particles streaking through our atmosphere are larger than grains of dust I don't see how they can be attributed to the cometary tail, surely any larger objects in the ionised tail of the comet would hold too much charge and would be quickly broken down electrically.

Is there any way that the ionised comet tail is causing an increase in the charge differential between interplanetary space and our magnetosphere, therefore causing the material falling into our atmosphere to burn up much more energetically than usual i.e. the meteor shower is just the normal activity we would recieve, it is simply being electrically disrupted far more than usual.

Chicago fire

Thanks for the replies before the crash.

Cheers!

[Lloyd]

These TPODs and webpages discuss much of what you're talking about.
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch ... meteor.htm
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch ... eorite.htm
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch ... eorite.htm
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=9kee2918

This webpage, http://www.kronia.com/symposium/clube.txt, talks about meteors in the Taurid stream causing catastrophes on Earth over the millennia. It says, "We know that there is a huge swarm of this material in the Taurid stream, which is moving around in what is called the 'mean motion resonance.' That is, Jupiter strongly influences it's orbit, and there is every reason to believe that because all this material is in this huge resonance, there is some huge source that has been feeding these meteoroids into it, down through the millennia." I think I hadn't heard of that idea before. I think Wal Thornhill claims that such meteor streams came from the birthing process for Venus, Titan etc ejected from Saturn a few millennia ago. But TPODs have mentioned that the rings around Saturn seem to be made by material electrically eroded in jets from some of Saturn's moons. So it seems possible that meteor streams orbiting the sun could be produced in a similar way, but I don't know what the huge source of the meteor streams would be. Well, maybe it's Mars. I guess dust devils don't lift very large objects off of Mars these days though.

[Osmosis]

Well, there are a couple of planets, which have great canyons--where did the soil go? Perhaps we may know ! There goes another!

[redeye]

Somebody posted backissues of the Thoth newsletter (I think) and there was discussion of evidence that the upper atmosphere was constantly being bombarded by miniature comets. I can't remember any of the names involved but the gentleman who presented the evidence originally had pictures, taken from orbit, which showed a barrage of small objects, burning up and apparently dumping water vapour into the atmosphere.

controversy

small comets

as with the atmospheric holes found in the Dynamic Explorer-1 images, those found in the Polar spacecraft's images also show a greater number of impacts during the morning hours as compared to the evening hours. This provides yet further confirmation that the holes are indeed real and not instrumental artifacts. If the holes were an artifact, then their appearance in the images should not be dependent on the time of day.

Interesting that the phenomenon should be linked to solar activity.

Cheers!

[MGmirkin]

A paper entitled "Geological Consequences of Large Meteoric Bodies Approaching the Earth – The Electrical Factor"

http://aig.org.au/assets/85/AIGnews_Aug08.pdf
http://www.zhelem.com/ru/articles/k_kha ... racts2.htm

It seems that geophysical sciences are perhaps catching up with the EU model's interpretation of things like the Tunguska event, and implications for kimberlites, electric earthquakes, and some other features and processes. It seems they view the "electrical interloper" model of meteorite interaction with Earth's atmosphere a viable explanation for certain geological features.

Abstract:

Kimberlite genesis is linked to disruptions in the Earth’s electrical field caused by the approach of large meteoritic bodies, as well as their mechanical impact with the Earth. Previous work suggests that subterranean electrical discharges may not only cause earthquakes but also trigger the eruption of kimberlite. Here it is proposed that these disruptions of the Earth’s internal electrical field are the result of external factors affecting the Earth’s electric field, such as the close approach of a large meteoritic body. It is also suggested that cryptoring structures may have a similar genesis, as they appear to have a spatial association with kimberlite diatreme fields.

The proposed model of kimberlite genesis by near-Earth intruder interaction suggested by the author is based on four separate groups of data. Until recently, each particular group showed no logical connection with the other three, but when considered collectively all appear related.

Group 1. Subterranean electrical discharges

[...]

Group 2. Meteoritic bodies (MBs) as sources of electric fields

[...]

Group 3. Structural independence of diatreme zones and fields

[...]

Group 4. Spatial-temporal connections of ring explosive structures and diatreme fields and zones

[...]

Conclusion:

Thus, the geological consequences of the interaction between large MBs with the Earth are not limited to mechanical impact, but may also result from electrical stresses in the atmosphere and the Earth’s crust, producing seismicity, local partial melting of the mantle and the eruption of kimberlites to the Earth’s surface.

Interesting stuff. Plenty more in the article proper, just didn't have the time / inclination to copy+paste it all...

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin

[MGmirkin]

Mostly by an engineered accident, I ran across this article:

(Earthquake or Meteor?)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 838E669FDE
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... ref=slogin

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin

[GaryN]

Incoming!
Maybe we will see some electrical activity from this object?

http://m.news.com.au/TopStories/fi262431.htm

[substance]

It`s measured to be only 5 meters in diameter, I doubt there will be a very spectacular lights display..

[MGmirkin]

Nice fireball tho'. Hopefully someone can point some high resolution cameras at the thing? Other instruments to measure various other spectra (UV, IR, x-ray, etc.)... Seems like this would be an excellent opportunity to get some first-hand data on such things. I mean if we know the date, time and location of such an object, one would think we could put all our eyes and ears on it for however transitive a moment it's around.

~Michael Gmirkin

[junglelord]

A news story today from NASA Space Weather.

ASTEROID UPDATE: Last week when asteroid 2008 TC3 entered Earth's atmosphere over Sudan, "classified assets" were watching. Without naming names, the US government has released a summary of what they saw: "Sensors aboard US satellites detected the impact of a bolide over Africa on 7 October 2008 at 02:45:40 UT. Initial observations put the object at 65.4 km altitude at 20.9o N, 31.4o E. The object detonated at an altitude of approximately 37 km at 20.8o N, 32.2o E. The total radiated energy was approximately 4.0X1011 joules, equivalent to ~0.1 kilotons of TNT."

http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?vie ... &year=2008

[GaryN]

Thanks JL, I was wondering when some data would show up. Doing a little searching, it seems the military have been observing these objects for years, but not reporting them.

Meteor showers and individual streaks of light that flash across the sky every night are generated when tiny flecks of celestial detritus, often no larger than grains of sand or pebbles, burn up while speeding through the atmosphere.

In contrast, the blasts seen by the military satellites are produced when speeding objects up to the size of large houses are heated to incandescence and then explode about 17 to 20 miles above Earth.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

However, I still can not understand how some of these larger objects heat so quickly in such a thin atmosphere at these altitudes. Their velocity would affect the heating rate of course, but I don't see this figure mentioned. From the above linked article, it seems that in 1 or 2 seconds they reach incandescence and detonate.

I still suspect that it is the electrical stresses from voltage changes that is the real reason, but this is never mentioned. Right now, the solar system background voltage is at less than 120kV, I think, and at 20 miles at less than 40kV. Regardless of the objects composition, I would think such a voltage change in such a short time would be more likely to cause 'detonation'.

[webolife]

Think of the view that heat = electrical stress... whether we look at it from one side of the coin or the other, the nature of the coin is that both sides are connected. Typical meteors [the sand grain variety] are clocked at 13,000+ kph, but some larger bolides [fireballs] are just that because they encounter the earth at relatively slower speeds and don't burn up/lose mass until they reach the lower more dense atmospheric layers, producing the more spectacular displays. The fricton thing doesn't seem to explain either the smaller more common meteors for just the reasons you mention... thin mesosphere, plus tiny size... but increasing electrical stress as these speed through the ionosphere makes perfect sense, and when friction is involved it is also fundamentally an interaction of the object with the electrical fields of the atmospheric particles. Remember that at the fundamental level things don't "touch"... their electrical fields interact.

[MGmirkin]

How hot is the fireball / sheath caused by a meteorite entering the atmosphere? How long is the meteorite exposed to that temperature? Can the meteorite conduct heat efficiently enough throughout that it can explode due to thermal stresses (during the time between entering the atmosphere and before impacting the surface)? Can it happen for objects the size of a house?

Can we replicate rocks exploding in this way by some scaled down experiment (say putting an equivalent rock behind a jet engine or in a blow torch / plasma torch at some experimentally equivalent temperature)?

Just wondering. Same question for "comets" exploding due to "thermal stresses" when they get too close to the sun. Can comets conduct heat efficiently enough to do this if they're several hundred meters wide, several hundred kilometers wide?

~Michael Gmirkin