The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

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Expand view Topic review: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by johnm33 » Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:28 pm

I think we can also speculate that Brown Dwarf stars

In some sense I think of all stars being either in or out of the powerful magnetohydrodynamic charge flux of the galaxy's bloch wall. So like light bulbs they can be off or on. My own peculiar take, though others have suggested it, is that stars are 'born' mostly at the galactic core and are released to slowly move away from the core, and spend most of their time in the arm to which they're 'native. In this way all the stars 'orbit' at a similar speed, but in fact move away according to their charge potential much like ions in the suns heliospheric current sheet. Those stars which spend little time in reciept of energy evolve slowly as a consequence of spending little time close to the galactic equatorial plane. I suspect the sun is native to M54 which would explain, almost perfectly it's orientation to that plane, as a consequence it has encountered a number of stars/brown dwarfs and may have been captured by the charge field of the M.W. it has certainly usurped their [4 as giants] place in the energy stream for now.
I prefer Charles Chandlers model of what takes place in the heart of stars, where iron precipitates out and settles into the depths, then since so many heavy metals are also created they form a layer directly above the iron, this because although the pressure continues to grow the gravitational peak is perhaps close to 1/3 of the way out from the center, by mass. Once the iron core has formed it seems that electrical/radiative forces create heavy metals within the iron and co-create protons/hydrogen ions in the process. These hyrogen ions are trapped in the matrix of the crystaline iron and are held in place by both the P/T's and the powerful charge feild surrounding the iron. Some no doubt escape in the matrix of the heavy metals as they are, over time, squeezed to the surrounding layer.
When two stars meet the most developed will draw in all the charge of both, this will alter the balance of power more in the core of the lesser and excess hydrogen ions will escape leeding to an explosive shattering of the iron core, which may emerge as several pieces some will be lost some may coalesce and others may find an orbital slot to inhabit. The largest pieces may retain a substantial amount of the upper layers of it's native sun and may even form planets. If they do it may be that they retain some of the hydrogen ions within their new iron core, and if they find an orbit then the acceleration into the orbit may be enough to cool down the heavy metals and the iron core after which in a slow process the interaction of it's 'new' sun and the core may continue to produce more hydrogen ions and these may be released at some future time when a new 'star' is captured and orbital slots change. This time instead of an explosive event a whole cascade of hydrogen chemistry begins to occur with any number of hydrogen based solvents being created in situe as supercritical liquids, one of which will be H2O.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by jacmac » Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:35 pm

I know this topic is about the chemistry of water, and salts and various reactions.
I am unable to join that discussion due to my weak chemistry knowledge.
But, regarding the discussion about
At Io, Jupiter's innermost moon, volcanic plumes of gas and dust
What about the electric component of the plumes on Io ?
Jupiter has a very strong magnetic field, Io orbits fast and close to Jupiter,
and Io has a very high iron content.

How might this contribute to the discussion about the water and salt content of the Plumes on IO ?

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by nick c » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:36 am

Something to think about...the closest star to our system is a red dwarf star, 6 of the 10 closest stars are red/brown dwarfs, and of the sixty closest stars fifty are red/brown dwarfs.
"We thought we would have to search vast distances to find an Earth-like planet. Now we realise another Earth is probably in our own backyard, waiting to be spotted," said Courtney Dressing, lead author of the study.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21350899

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by johnm33 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:56 pm

As if to confirm me in my view this showed up, https://phys.org/news/2023-02-aurorae-j ... moons.html
At Io, Jupiter's innermost moon, volcanic plumes of gas and dust are vast in size, reaching hundreds of kilometers in height. These plumes contain salts like sodium chloride and potassium chloride, which break down to produce additional colors.

Ok so still not Saturnian, what I'm thinking about this is that the water immediately evaporates but the salt being the most massive part of the solution carries the bulk of the inertia of the outburst. How long the water would persist as water in that electrical environment ? but I'm assuming it would rapidly diffuse and that if something similar happened on a saturnian satelite then it would end up in the bloch wall tension of the rings.
Phoebe if not an outlier seems to be towards one end of the spectrum when it comes to density, assuming we 'trust' the numbers, but low on mass and it may be that even if it does outgas hydrogen compounds and helium they simply evaporate off and are lost to it. Even Earth itself loses 100,000 tons of hydrogen to 'space' annually.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by nick c » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:36 pm

Okay, I see your point.
I think we can also speculate that Brown Dwarf stars (if indeed what we see as Saturn today is the remnant of a brown dwarf) are prolific producers of water. Adding to Wal Thornhill's speculation that terrestrial type satellites of Brown and Red dwarf stars are where we should be looking for extraterrestrial life.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by johnm33 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:27 am

Sorry for the OT but it's the salt/brine I've been thinking about recently.
I was thinking the same processes take place inside Saturns, and Jupiters, moons, where hydrogen chemistry driven by proton 'creation' in their cores would lead to similar results. Water, methane and escaping hydrogen and helium being brought to the surface by tidally driven techtonics and on occasion blasted into space either by the chemical reaction inside the moon or by impacts. The hydrogen, helium and evaporating methane would gravitate to the parent body, the water would, over time, shed salt as brinicles depositing the excess deep beneath the surface, and at some point achieve an equilibrium between salt diffusion into the water and brinicle deposition. Phoebe may be very young or have exhausted it's capacity to produce ions. I imagine there is a hierarchy of elemental composition of moons as the parent body's core gets smaller, I suspect Uranus and Neptune may no longer have the capacity to shed moons.
I'm presuming long periods of no activity and a massive build up of Hygrogen ions/protons. Then kinetic events poweful enough to liquify the heavy metal 'storage' of the ions setting off catastrophic chain reactions once those ions are free. Assuming the moons are birthed by their hosts the number of moons sets a minimum number for those catastrophic events, capture by another star and change of orbital hierarchy would be prime candidates both electrically and kinetically.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by nick c » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:40 am

John,
Your post still does not explain why the Earth would have salt water so similar to that found in the Saturn system (except Phoebe). Coincidence?
Also, as Ginenthal has shown in The Extinction of the Mammoth the catastrophe that froze the mammoths, had to have a pole shift which was probably accompanied by a change in the Earth's inclination to the ecliptic, from around 5 to 10 degrees to the present 23.5 degrees.

Concerning the expanding earth theory, this is not the thread for that, we have a dedicated thread.... Are the Planets Growning?

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by johnm33 » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:30 pm

Just read the thread but none of the links yet. I've been thinking about expanding earth and possible scenarios for a while, my current favourite is an Hydridic earth model. In this hydrogen ions emerge from fission reactions caused by some external electrical forcing, they're co-created with heavy metals and remain within the matrix of the heavy metals as they are slowly forced out of the iron core. So once free of the core they're free to react with the elements there, I'e been working through the possibilities which basically means thinking of an element and adding H4 to it and wondering about the possibilities, one of the most interesting is SiH4 which is a supercritical fluid at outer core P/Ts. Another is NaH4, much the same applies, this leads me to think that hydrothermal vents may not be re-cycling sea water but may be residuals of extraordinary fountains of saline waters that resulted from reactions with chlorine compounds a few kilometers down. SiH4 reacting with SiO4 would generate enough heat to make the resulting water supercritical anywhere below 3km. Thus if what's found down the Kola hole is typical the mantle is more probably a series of saturated solutions replete with insoluble particles and the stiff molten lava is only in our imagination. An interesting consequence of the hydridic model would be the rapid transformation of dense minerals to much less dense materials. It also gies another possibility for the rapid cooling which froze the mammoths, if a saline solution, in sufficient quantities were expelled into the upper atmosphere then the water would vapourise and freeze in huge quantities, the salt would be left hanging and itself become extremely cold. Once they began to fall the water would mostly fall as pure ice, perhaps with some impurities, meteoric iron springs to mind as do the trace elements in hydrothermal vents, so hail or snow. Then the salt would arrive the enthalpy of salt would drive down the surface temp. to -21c but would continue to fall as the salt made it's way through the ice's exclusion zone liquid layer and thus the temp. woul continue to drop.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by nick c » Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:46 am

The quote below is from Velikovsky's book "IN THE BEGINNING". That book was written in the 1940's before WORLDS IN COLLISION (1950) and was originally intended to be the 1st section of WORLDS IN COLLISION.
IN THE BEGINNING, which is the story of what started the series of catastrophes, remained unpublished. It is now available for free on the Velikovsky Archive, and has recently (2020) been published in paperback.

Velikovsky wrote:My explanation of the origin of a large portion of the salts of the seas suggests that Saturn is rich not only in water but also in chlorine, either in the form of sodium chloride or in some other combination, or even atomic free.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by Cognizant_Jon » Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:31 am

Brigit wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:29 am Also welcome, Cognizant Jon !
Pardon the very late reply. Still adjusting to a new schedule pattern for myself. I have just started reading "A Beginner's View of Our Electric Universe" by Tom Findlay. A disclosure, my first professional training was in electrical and electronics theory and application for the U.S. Navy. So with the knowledge Electric Universe seemed more probable than what is currently being pitched in the mainstream.

My observations conflicted with the theories being bandied about. Not to derail this thread, but nature doesn't operate on imaginary numbers.
How do the square of two imaginary numbers equal negative one? In algebra for god sakes.

For EU theory, the hardware I was trained to maintain operates on simple physics and electricity principles. No imaginary numbers there!

Tom Findlay did a damn fine job with his book and I haven't even finished reading it yet. It precisely explains and matches with my electronics and electricity training from the US Navy and also my observations here on earth. As grim as the example is, a person shocked with enough voltage will overcome gravity and fly back from the live wire that person makes contact with.

It is wonderful that Saturn's water is just like earth's, I wonder if this could be a finger print for potential origins of our home planet.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by nick c » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:28 am

Brigit wrote:I've been wondering about what was known about Brown Dwarf stars in 1950.
Nothing in 1950. Brown Dwarfs were first theorized to exist in the early 1960's. The name "Brown Dwarf" was first used in 1975.
Dare I say Velikovsky's thinking was ahead of his time?

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by Brigit » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:29 am

Also welcome, Cognizant Jon !

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by Brigit » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:27 am

nick c says »
"Interesting, that Velikovsky, while discussing possible future catastrophes, called Jupiter and Saturn "dark stars" on P. 373 of Worlds In Collision 1950 (Doubleday);
  • "Also, some dark star, like Jupiter or Saturn, may be in the path of the Sun, and may be attracted to the system and cause havoc in it."


I've been wondering about what was known about Brown Dwarf stars in 1950.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by nick c » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:24 am

Interesting, that Velikovsky, while discussing possible future catastrophes, called Jupiter and Saturn "dark stars" on P. 373 of Worlds In Collision 1950 (Doubleday);
Also, some dark star, like Jupiter or Saturn, may be in the path of the Sun, and may be attracted to the system and cause havoc in it.

Re: The Saturn System has water just like Earth's - Except Phoebe

by Cognizant_Jon » Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:53 pm

I just recently watched both parts explaining the Saturn-Earth Connection and find them to be a better explanation than mainstream science.

Also, the Electric Universe includes common universal connections that don't separate science from tribal nation spiritual connections that we all have.

Those factors, including similar water properties between Saturn and Earth, has better logic. My foray into Electric Universe started because of Gaia TV Streaming Service. Consequently I have bought all the present books I could get from EU, Dwardu Cardona, and Immanuel Velikovsky. I will be digging into those books I purchased most of my free time.

I didn't know Saturn emits twice as much heat than it receives from our current sun. That is also a feature of Jupiter. Very curious indeed...

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