Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

[Lloyd]

46525

CREATIONIST ARTICLES 2019 to Now
http://funday.createaforum.com/x/creati ... essage=293

YOUNG UNIVERSE

I reorganized the Creationist articles from my thread Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm into 8 categories. The first category is "Earth" and there you can find the following article, 101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe. I was just skimming through that article a little now and thought the following evidences below are worth sharing. The article suggests the universe is young, like 7,000 years young. That would be hard to conclude if light has always traveled at light speed and if the visible universe is as large as it seems to be. But I had a thread maybe ten years ago here that was based on an online book that said Stars are thousands of times closer than they appear. I wasn't able to conclude that the evidence was solid, but this site used to have a blog post or something that acknowledged that I think under 300 light years is as far as measurements can be made fairly accurately. Beyond that the margin of error is about 100%. So that means the actual size of the Milky Way isn't even really known, much less the distance to other galaxies. On top of that, the redshift does not measure distance or velocity, as is proved by the high redshift quasar in front of a low redshift galaxy. So it seems possible that the universe could be as young as Creationists think, i.e. 7,000 years or so. But I'm not close to accepting that yet. So far I can accept that it's probably less than a billion years old.

101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe
https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

[These are numbers 92-95 on the list.]

Speedy stars are consistent with a young age for the universe. For example, many stars in the dwarf galaxies in the Local Group are moving away from each other at speeds estimated at [up?] to 10–12 km/s. At these speeds, the stars should have dispersed in 100 Ma, which, compared with the supposed 14,000 Ma age of the universe, is a short time.
See Fast stars challenge big bang origin for dwarf galaxies https://creation.com/a/5087

The ageing of spiral galaxies (much less than 200 million years) is not consistent with their supposed age of many billions of years. The discovery of extremely ‘young’ spiral galaxies highlights the problem of this evidence for the evolutionary ages assumed.
See https://creation.com/early-galaxies-don-t-fit

The number of type I supernova remnants (SNRs) observable in our galaxy is consistent with an age of thousands of years, not millions or billions. See Davies, K., Proc. 3prd ICC, pp. 175–184, 1994.
See https://creation.com/exploding-stars-po ... g-universe

There is a great paucity of highly expanded SNRs compared to what is expected under evolutionary cosmogony. See supernova remnants.
See https://creation.com/exploding-stars-po ... g-universe

YOUNG EARTH & SOLAR SYSTEM
(See first link above for a more complete list with 8 categories. These are from category 1.)

1. How did the Solar System form?
https://creation.com/how-did-the-solar-system-form

1. The planets are young: 1: Mercury and Venus
https://creation.com/planets-mercury-and-venus

1. The planets are young: 2 Earth and Mars
https://creation.com/planets-earth-and-mars

1. Moon Is Unexpectedly Still Cooling and Shrinking
https://www.icr.org/article/11341/

1. The planets are young: 3 Jupiter
https://creation.com/planets-jupiter

1. The planets are young: 4 Saturn
https://creation.com/planets-saturn

1. Young Saturn
https://creation.com/young-saturn

1. The planets are young: 5 Uranus and Neptune
https://creation.com/planets-uranus-and-neptune

1. Young Age Creationism contribution to science
http://creation.com/why-young-age-creat ... or-science

1. 101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe
https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

1. Four Geological Evidences for a Young Earth
https://www.icr.org/article/11295/

1. The oceans show us a young earth
https://creation.com/oceans

[Lloyd]

47220

TIAHUANACO

Here is part of a recent Creationist article about the ancient Amazon Sea, which was where Tiahuanaco was later located.

Flood Solves Mystery of Amazon Sea
https://www.icr.org/article/flood-solve ... mazon-sea/
... The current secular view holds that the western Amazon region was once a massive wetland twice the size of Texas that was trapped east of the Andes Mountains and westernmost Brazil and spilled over to Peru and Colombia.1 But whether this area was flooded by saltwater has caused considerable debate. The 2019 Journal of Biogeography study provides evidence showing that it was. “We find fossil mangroves and associated coastal plants in the middle of the Amazon,” said co-author Carina Hoom of the University of Amsterdam.1 Co-author Christine Baker said, “I’d say it’s pretty much a slam dunk that there were marine incursions in South America.”
... But how could the land surface so easily rise and fall during the Miocene to allow these ocean incursions?
... An alternative explanation that settles the debate and answers the questions involves the global Flood recorded in Genesis. ICR scientists interpret Miocene strata as part of the receding phase of the Flood.6-8 The Bible tells us the floodwater “receded continually” in a back-and-forth style (Genesis 8:3).9 As the Flood reached its highest level on Day 150, it swept away all types of upland plants and animals from the highest hills (Genesis 7:19), including some from freshwater environments. The Guiana and Brazilian Shields east of the study area were the closest pre-Flood uplands and likely sources for many Miocene fossils.8 Massive tsunami-like waves generated by plate movement that continued through the Tejas Megasequence (which includes the Miocene strata) carried these plants and animals to lower elevations as the water receded. Furthermore, these huge waves also transported marine plants and animals, producing a rich blend of biodiversity.8 And at the same time, the Andes Mountains were actively rising, forming a buttress to the west. This likely trapped many of these future fossils in pools of swirling water between the mountains and the pre-Flood uplands, depositing them in the Miocene rocks of western Amazonia. This explains the unusual mixture of creatures from fresh and saltwater environments we find entombed together there today. The Miocene fossil beds in western Amazonia are readily explained in the Flood model.

[Lloyd]

49058

YOUNG OCEANS

The oceans show us a young earth
https://creation.com/oceans
_Ocean salt. The salt in the oceans cannot have been accumulating for more than 37 million years at the present rate of accumulation (See Sarfati, J., Salty seas, Creation 21(1):16–17, 1998 https://creation.com/salty/). If the vast majority of it accumulated during the Great Flood and maybe during later Floods, then it could have accumulated for merely 6,000 years.
_Accumulating nickel. Based upon current estimates it would only take 168,000 years to accumulate all the nickel currently found in the nodules in the oceans. Again the vast majority could have accumulated during the Floods.
_Where is all the seafloor sediment? At the present rate, all the sediment would have been accumulated in under 12 million years and could have accumulated mostly during the Floods, in 6 or 7,000 years altogether.
_Gigantic submarine canyons. Uniformitarian geologists are at a loss, admitting that there are currently no widely accepted theories capable of explaining them. However, looking at these features from the perspective of a young earth and Noah’s Flood makes perfect sense. They were carved by ‘channelized flow’ coming off the continents in the recessive stage of the Flood. That is why they are often found seawards of valleys on the land. The same rapid channelized flow that carved the valley on land also carved the submarine valley offshore.

[Lloyd]

51396

JUST 4 AGES

1. 1st Age: EARTH ORIGIN
https://futureschool.boards.net/thread/49/1-1st-age
a. SATURN SYSTEM PLANETS ORIGIN - Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, Earth Formed by Electrical Implosion (like Beads on a String)
b. SUPERCONTINENT FORMATION ____7,000(±1k) BP - Supercontinent formed from asteroid soft landing
c. GENESIS GOLDEN AGE: SUPERCONTINENT COLONIZATION: CONTINENTAL BIOME (Thicker Atmosphere and Weak Gravity favored Megafauna, Megaflora, Giant Insects
d. BIBLE PATRIARCHS
e. GREAT FLOOD ____4,700(±2c) BP
e1. SATURN FLARE (just before the Flood and at the iridium anomaly)
e2. ASTEROID IMPACTS
e3. ELLIPTICALLY ORBITING TIDAL ASTEROID/MOON
e4. TSUNAMI MEGASEQUENCES
e5. RAPID CONTINENTAL DRIFT IMPACTOR
e6. MOUNTAIN FORMATION

2. 2nd Age: LATE GOLDEN AGE ____4,700(±2c)-4,300(±1c) BP
https://futureschool.boards.net/thread/53/3rd-age
a. SATURN CONFIGURATION & MYTH-MAKING
b. SMALL MOON IN CLOSE ORBIT (Equatorial Lands Inundated by High Ocean Level?)
c. WARM ARCTIC (due to Saturn above North Pole)
d. NORTH AMERICAN ICE SHEET (due to Aurora)
e. AGE OF GIANT MAMMALS (due to Saturn tidal effect)
f. EARLY ADVANCED MEGALITHIC CIVILIZATION (modeled on Saturn Configuration: Sumer, Egypt, Tiahuanaco, Gobekli Tepe, Baltic Troy; Bronze Age)
g. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT ____4,300(±1c) BP = Egyptian Second Intermediate Period?
g1. SATURN FLARE (another iridium anomaly)
g2. CONFLAGRATION
g3. ICE SHEET MELT FLOOD
g4. SATURN MOVED TO PRESENT ORBIT
g5. JUPITER REPLACED SATURN over North Pole
g6. VENUS, MARS & JUPITER MOVED TO PRESENT ORBITS

3. 3rd Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA ____4,300(±1c)-2,020 BP
https://futureschool.boards.net/thread/53/3rd-age
a. CLIMATE CHANGE: ARCTIC PERMAFROST & SUBTROPIC DESERTIFICATION
(Greeks & Trojans Moved From Scandinavia to Mediterranean; Egypt & Sumer Continued; Late Bronze Age to Iron Age)
b. PERIODIC IMPACTS (Continued for Centuries & Led to Halloween)
c. EARLY RELIGIONS (Buddhism & others were modeled on the Golden Age)
d. RULING CLASS (Some Prechristian History has probably been Faked by a Ruling Class)

4. 4th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA 2,020 BP to PRESENT (____0-2020 AD)
https://futureschool.boards.net/thread/55/4th-age
a. CHRISTIAN EVENT 2020-1990 BP = ____0-30 AD
a1. JESUS' APOSTLES (followed and elaborated his Example) ____30-70 AD
a2. PACIFIST CHRISTIANITY (Christians opposed war) ____70-2020 AD
a3. ROMAN CHRISTIANITY (The Romans invented Pagan Christianity) ____312-2020 AD
a4. NONCHRISTIANITY (Judaism, Buddhism, Islam etc modeled on the Golden Age)
a5. REPUBLICANISM (Biblical Political Economics invented by Nicolas of Cusa) 1450-2020 AD
a6. FAKE HISTORY (Much Christian Era History has been Faked by a Ruling Class)

[Lloyd]

51548

ASTEROID BELT FORMATION

REMELTED CRUSTS
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=15407
Charles Chandler explains why the crusts of Mars, the Moon and Earth partly melted at the time of the formation of the asteroid belt, when the former planet Ceres exploded from an impact in the Saturn System. Charles doesn't date the event, but it must have occurred about 7,000 BP about the time of the Supercontinent formation.

DIAGRAM SHOWING TRANSITION FROM SATURN SYSTEM TO JUPITER SYSTEM TO SOLAR SYSTEM
https://ibb.co/DtN620S
First, Mars, Venus & Saturn were visible above the North Pole after the first Saturn Flare, before the Great Flood.
Then, after the Younger Dryas event, Saturn left the system at Saturn's present orbit. This left Jupiter appearing in place of Saturn above the North Pole.
Then Mars, Mercury, Venus and Earth followed Jupiter to near Earth orbit before each one left the Jupiter system.
Jupiter then returned to Jupiter's present orbit.

[JP Michael]

DIAGRAM SHOWING TRANSITION FROM SATURN SYSTEM TO JUPITER SYSTEM TO SOLAR SYSTEM
https://ibb.co/DtN620S
First, Mars, Venus & Saturn were visible above the North Pole after the first Saturn Flare, before the Great Flood.
Then, after the Younger Dryas event, Saturn left the system at Saturn's present orbit. This left Jupiter appearing in place of Saturn above the North Pole.
Then Mars, Mercury, Venus and Earth followed Jupiter to near Earth orbit before each one left the Jupiter system.
Jupiter then returned to Jupiter's present orbit.

This is not based on any mythic evidence, as per my comments here.

There is no evidence prior to the 7th century BCE in any extant tradition, oral or literary, that Saturn was earth's former sun. It is simply not a global tradition, neither an old tradition and can be explained in ways other than the supposed Polar Configuration.

There is significant geological evidence of cataclysm around ~2300 BCE, but there is no way to link this cataclysm to the alleged former activies of Saturn or Jupiter.

I have not yet read the arguments regarding Mars and Venus, but I hold the possibility of the planets (including earth) perhaps having different orbits in the past which may have brought them periodically closer to earth than their current orbits do.

This is pretty much the end of the road for me with my contributions to Thunderbolts. I may do a few book reviews in the future and perhaps share the findings of my dragon research project, which will be due mid to late 2022.

All the best, Lloyd, Brigit and whoever else might care.

[Lloyd]

53305

PRIMARY SOURCES FOR THE SATURN THEORY

JP said: There is no evidence prior to the 7th century BCE in any extant tradition, oral or literary, that Saturn was earth's former sun. It is simply not a global tradition, neither an old tradition and can be explained in ways other than the supposed Polar Configuration.
He linked to this regarding more details: https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =431#p4967

I guess I shouldn't expect much discussion from JP on this then. Right? If not, sorry about that. I think primary sources do describe the Saturn Configuration, which goes back to the time of the Great Flood at least. The primary sources would be Egyptian and Sumerian sources. Am I right? It's hard to prove such things in few words or in a short time. Following are some of the relevant topics I've covered in this thread previously, which I think help prove the Saturn Theory. I agree that Marinus et al may have helpful ideas to add to the theory, but I think Talbott and Cardona and co. are closer to correct, although I've also corrected them, such as on dating the Younger Dryas event as after the Great Flood. And the breakup of the Saturn/Jupiter system came shortly after the Younger Dryas event about 2200 BC.

THOTH BACK ISSUES: TALBOTT & CARDONA
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =330#p3220

TALBOTT ON SATURN MYTHS
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =330#p3225

WORKING ON CHRONOLOGY VIA MYTHS
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =330#p3234

GENESIS TOHU WA BOHU & THE SATURN THEORY
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =420#p4166

SOME OF MY NOTES ON CARDONA'S LAST BOOK, NEWBORN STAR
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =420#p4283
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =420#p4381

[JP Michael]

I think primary sources do describe the Saturn Configuration, which goes back to the time of the Great Flood at least. The primary sources would be Egyptian and Sumerian sources. Am I right?

This is exactly Tony's point. He checked the sources used by Talbott, Cardona and Cochrane, etc., and discovered that none of them can be reliably dated earlier than the 7th century BCE, and many of them were secondary or tertiary sources, not primary ones. There is no account of Saturn as primordial sun earlier than this date, and no account in non-classical traditions outside of the Mediterranean and ANE (eg. Africa, Scandanavia, Asia, America, Australia). Hence his unanswered challege: provide a primary source explicating Saturn as Sun earlier than 7th century BCE, or from any non-classical tradition. So far, the evidence is lacking.

Tony said he wanted to save this theory with all his heart, but it simply falls down at every primary source examined. And I agree with his assessment.

It may be that new evidence in the future may cause a re-examination of the topic, but the current state of affairs is firmly against the view that earth was once a satellite of hypothetical primordial brown dwarf sun Saturn.

[Lloyd]

53320

PRIMARY SOURCES BEFORE 2000 BC

The Egyptian and Sumerian sources go back before 2000 BC. Those are their primary sources. So I don't understand how the claim can be true.

[JP Michael]

The Egyptian and Sumerian sources go back before 2000 BC. Those are their primary sources. So I don't understand how the claim can be true.

Because you are yet to understand that there are no Egyptian sources stating Saturn = Sun prior to 750 BCE, nor Sumerian sources prior to the same. The earliest known Egyptian source explicitly stating that Saturn = sun is written in Demotic script and dated to the 1st century CE. The Babylonian (Akkadian) sources, mostly omen texts, are all soundly dated between 750-612 BCE, and these are not Sumerian. All the primary literature is listed in the Αula Orientalis article by van der Sluijs and Peter James.

If you have an earlier Sumerian primary source explicitly or implicitly stating that Saturn = Sun, then please supply it for closer scrutiny.

If you have an earlier Egyptian primary source explicitly or implicity stating that Saturn = Sun, then please supply it for closer scrutiny.

Until there is evidence of the idea 1. earlier than 750 BCE, and 2. on a global, not just ANE, scale, van der Sluijs' argument remains the most plausible option explaining the association between Saturn and sun. It simply isn't a global motif, or an ancient motif.

[Lloyd]

53748

SATURN THEORY PRIMARY SOURCES

As I said yesterday, the Saturn Theory comes from primary sources before 2000 BC from Egypt and Sumer. It's absurd to think that the Ra-sign, a circle within a circle, would refer to the present Sun. Here are some details.

SATURN THESIS
The Saturn Thesis (Part 3) [Aeon] by Dave Talbott [Excerpts]
https://www.catastrophism.com/intro/sea ... zoom_cat=2
_The pictograph of Ra is a circle with a much smaller circle in the center.
_I resolved to go to the most fundamental and well-documented facts. So I looked meticulously at the image of the Uraeus serpent, perhaps the most frequently-cited hieroglyph for "goddess" in Egypt. What is the relationship of the Uraeus to the Ra-sign? And what is the relationship of the Uraeus to the hero? It soon became clear that in reference to the original condition of Ra, the Uraeus, also called the "Eye" of Ra, refers to the circle inside the Ra-sign. (2 ) And not just a circle, but a sphere. The name of Sekhmet, the Eye-goddess par excellence, comes from a word meaning "little orb."
_After comparing this data with other details of the Eye-goddess (equation of the Eye and the primeval "egg," depiction of the heart as a spherical "vase," and numerous cross-cultural images), only one conclusion was possible: in the remembered "original condition" of Ra, the god's single eye meant an orb.
_An example of the central star without the smaller orb can be seen in the stele of Naram-Sin, conventionally dated to 2250 B.C. Beneath the sun wheel rises the cosmic mountain! In cases such as this all doubt is removed: What looks like a band in other representations, is actually a second orb. The conclusion is therefore inescapable. The two inner circles of the Shamash-wheel were both remembered as spheres.
_the large circle could mean nothing other than a sphere ... Because in one representation after another it has a great crescent on it....
_the priest-astronomers themselves ... identified Shamash with the planet Saturn. With respect to the central star, the issue can be immediately settled as well. It is the star of Inanna-Ishtar, identified with Venus and no other planet. That leaves the innermost orb, which could signify only the warrior hero (Nergal, Irra and other variants of the same personality), since it is the hero who, according to the texts, wears the "terrifying glory" or "splendor" of the Venus-star as a crown.

FLARE STAR: THE SATURNIAN SUN
(p. 113)
_The first lesson we learned through our in-depth study of the mytho-historical record in our previous volume is that, as far as our primitive forefathers were concerned, planets were gods. Better said is that their gods were actually the planets. Thus, to them, gods and planets were one and the same. More than that, we learned that, strange as it may at first seem, the planet we now call Saturn was by the ancients considered to have been the most prominent of the planets.1 What makes this strange is that, at present, Saturn appears as a mere pin-point of light in the night sky which, unlike Venus, is not easily recognizable by the uninitiated. What is stranger still is that Saturn was referred to as the star of the Sun and even outright as the Sun star.2 As the Assyro-Babylonians unequivocally tell us, Saturn was considered a virtual sun.3 What we also learned is that many of the so-called Sun gods of the ancients were actually personifications of the planet Saturn. Donald MacKenzie, for instance, informs us that:
_"The sun god was identical with Ninip and Nin-Girsu ... resembling Babbar, 'the shining one', the solar deity of Akkadian Sippar, whose Semitic name was Shamash."4
_But that Ninip (variant, Ninib or Nirig), also known as Ninurta, was the same as the Greek Kronos, the avowed name of the planet Saturn, even MacKenzie knew.s For that matter, Ningirsu, too, was a name of the planet Saturn.6 In fact, that the Assyro-Babylonian Shamash, which most mythologists identify as the Sun, was actually the planet Saturn we know from the Assyro-Babylonians themselves.7 As Cochrane has demonstrated:
_"Saturn's identification with Shamash is attested in omen texts from the 13th century BC, for example. Saturn is also identified with Shamash in various astronomical reports sent to Esarhaddon and Ashurbanipal, and the cursory language employed by the Assyrian astronomers makes it apparent that this identification was common
knowledge and had long since become proverbial."8
1 D. Cardona, op. cit. p. 120.
2 Ibid. p. 121; see also D.R. Dicks. Early Greek Astronomy to Aristotle (Bristol, England. 1970). p. 167.
3 D. Cardona. op. cit. pp. 122-140.
4 D. A. MacKenzie. op. cit. p. 132.
5 Ibid. p. 316; for more on Ninip/Ninib/Nirig/Ninurta as Saturn see D. Cardona, op. cit. pp. 62, 124, 125 ff., 128 ff., 131, 212-213, 240, 449.
6 D. Cardona. op. cit. pp. 128 ff.
7 Ibid., pp. 122-125.
8 E. Cochrane. "In Defence of the Saturn Theory," Chronology & Catastrophism Review (2002: I), p. 29; U. Koch-Westenholz. Mesopotamian Astrology (Copenhagen. I 995). p. 123 (as cited in ibid.); H. Hunger. Astrological Reports to Assyrian Kings (Helsinki, 1992), pp. xvi and elsewhere (as cited in ibid.)

GOD STAR
The references to Cardona in the excerpt above from Flare Star refer to his earlier book, God Star, which repeats much of the material in the following article by Cardona, which is available online.
Intimations of an Alien Sky
Copyright Dwardu Cardona
http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophi ... ensky.html

SUN AND SATURN
Cardona got some of his info about Saturn from Jastrow's book, which is also available to read online at the following link.
Sun and Saturn
by Morris Jastrow Jr, Paris 1910
https://www.catastrophism.com/texts/sun-and-saturn/

[LunarSabbathTruth]

Almost 500 posts in this thread. LOL.
Is there a summary available?

[Lloyd]

54002

THREAD SUMMARY

Yes, I have an index for this thread at
https://futureschool.boards.net/thread/ ... read-index

It names the topics discussed in almost all posts in this thread.

[Lloyd]

54408

ANCIENT EGYPTIAN RITUAL BASED ON SATURN SYSTEM EVENTS

The Opening of The Mouth Ritual - Part II, by Ken Moss [Aeon] Volume VI, Number 5 (2004)
https://www.catastrophism.com/intro/sea ... oom_cat=-1
... Summary [Major Saturn System Events]
"The characteristic of the Eye appears to be that its removal from the highest god means disturbance, while its return means pacification and the restitution of order." [221] The proposed chronological order of the real celestial events that are the probable basis for, and match the mytho-historical record of the Osiris resurrection myth and the Opening of the Mouth Ritual is therefore as follows. [222] When the Saturnian Configuration (consisting of Saturn, Venus, Mars and Earth wrapped in a plasma column with shared polar axis) commenced on its process of destabilisation, Venus went out of alignment. Saturn was occluded by cosmic material spread by the roving Venus while Mars was seen to descend towards Earth. Due to the new electrical dynamics caused by the spreading planets, stacked plasma toroids formed within the polar column causing it to take on a backbone or ladder appearance. In Egyptian mythology, Saturn was the sun-god Osiris, Venus his wife Isis, and Mars was their son Horus. Eventually, Venus appeared to sweep away most of the material which had occluded Saturn and was seen to return to a position in front of the proto-Saturnian orb which had again become visible. Mars, as Horus, then ascended the ladder column towards his "dead" father Osiris. The two halves of the lower "jaw" of Osiris/Saturn were the bifurcated top of the plasma column. The relative nearness of Mars, Venus, and Saturn would, in all likelihood, have increased the electrical/plasma effects, illuminating the column in a much brighter light, giving the impression of stronger "jaws." This would have made it seem that Horus was using his "finger" or "spear" (the now more solid-looking portion of the column directly above Mars) to fix or set these jaws. Continuing upward and "over" the jaws, the Gates of Heaven, red Mars would eventually have reached the visual centre of the whitish ovoid that was Venus. Osiris' mouth now appeared to be opened and the god fully rejuvenated. The backbone-like toroids within the column would have dissipated, and the supreme god would have harked back to his previous appearance - a sun-like disk with a single eye or mouth atop the northerly River of Heaven. The glorious Golden Age of Saturn had returned - or so it had been hoped.

NOTE: As you can see, this article used info from plasma cosmology to help understand the Saturn Configuration and system breakup.

Part III (from 2004 or later) compares the Egyptian ritual with similar Mesoamerican rituals.

[Lloyd]

55560

COMPARING KEN MOSS & CARDONA RE SATURN MODEL

KEN MOSS: https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... 4996#p4996
CARDONA: https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =420#p4381
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =420#p4283

KEN MOSS: OPENING OF THE MOUTH RITUAL

EYE OF OSIRIS DEPARTED, OSIRIS DIED, THEN THE EYE RETURNED & OSIRIS REVIVED
(OSIRIS WAS SATURN; THE EYE WAS HIS WIFE ISIS, I.E. VENUS; HORUS WAS THEIR SON, I.E. MARS)

1. POLAR COLUMN CONNECTED EARTH'S NORTH POLE TO MARS, VENUS & SATURN RESPECTIVELY
- VENUS & MARS LOOKED LIKE AN EYE ON THE FACE OF SATURN

2. VENUS/ISIS MOVED OUT OF ALIGNMENT
- COSMIC DUST FROM VENUS/ISIS OBSCURED SATURN/OSIRIS

3. MARS/HORUS MOVED CLOSER TO EARTH, APPEARING TO GROW LARGE IN SIZE

4. ELECTRICAL FORCES FORMED STACKED PLASMA TOROIDS IN THE POLAR COLUMN
- THE STACK OF TOROIDS MADE THE COLUMN LOOK LIKE A BACKBONE OR LADDER

5. VENUS/ISIS SWEPT AWAY THE COSMIC DUST & RETURNED TO SATURN/OSIRIS, NOW VISIBLE AGAIN

6. MARS/HORUS CLIMBED THE LADDER TOWARD HIS DEAD FATHER SATURN/OSIRIS
- THE JAW OF SATURN/OSIRIS WAS THE BIFURCATED TOP OF THE POLAR-COLUMN/BACKBONED
- THE SHORT DISTANCES BETWEEN THE 4 PLANETS WOULD HAVE MADE THE BACKBONE & JAW BRIGHTER & STRONGER

7. MARS/HORUS USED HIS FINGER OR SPEAR, I.E. THE POLAR COLUMN ABOVE MARS, TO SET SATURN'S/OSIRIS' JAW

8. MARS/HORUS CONTINUED UP & OVER THE JAW
- THE JAW WAS CALLED THE GATES OF HEAVEN
- MARS/HORUS APPEARED TO SHRINK & REACHED THE CENTER OF THE EYE, I.E. VENUS/ISIS
- THE EYE ALSO LOOKED LIKE AN OPEN MOUTH, AS IF SATURN/OSIRIS WAS REVIVED
- THE BACKBONE THEN DISSIPATED


CARDONA'S LAST BOOK: NEWBORN STAR

p.12 A FLUID CHAOS EXISTED IN THE MIDHEAVEN BEFORE "CREATION"

p.17-18 FROM THE FLUID CHAOS EMERGED SATURN & A GREAT BURST OF LIGHT

p.20 "GOD"/SATURN EMERGED FROM THE FLUID CHAOS; THE FLUID SATURN DISK LOOKED LIKE CELESTIAL WATERS

p.21 "CREATION" WAS CATACLYSMIC & A SERIES OF CREATIONS

p.27 EL WAS ELOS = KRONOS = SATURN

p.31 SATURN WAS A RED/BROWN DWARF STAR

p.32 BROWN DWARFS OUTNUMBER STARS; SATURN WAS OBSERVED PREHISTORICALLY

p.33 SOME NEARBY BROWN DWARFS HAVE PLANETS

p.34 BROWN DWARFS SHINE DIMLY IN UV & ARE ABLE TO SUPPORT LIFE
SATURN'S FORMER CIRCUMSTELLAR DISK

p.35 SATURN WAS "CREATOR"

p.41 SATURN WARMED THE ARCTIC OVER THE NORTH POLE

p.46 MANY ARCTIC DINOSAURS WERE LARGER THAN OTHERS BECAUSE OF BETTER CLIMATE FROM SATURN HEAT

p.52 SATURN HAD A SOUTH POLAR ASTRAL JET

p.57 SATURN'S ASTRAL JET LOOKED LIKE A NAIL IN THE SKY

p.60 PERATT CONSIDERED THE JET TO BE AN INTENSE AURORA

p.62 THE JET WAS A PLASMA FLUX TUBE

p.63 THE SATURN SYSTEM WAS CAPTURED BY THE SUN

p.65 THERE'S EVIDENCE OF SATURN SYSTEM CAPTURE
I.E. different ratios of gases in the Sun, the Solar System and the outside

p.68 SATURN'S NOVA/FLARE-UP WAS "CREATION"

p.76 A TIMELESS ERA WAS BEFORE THE SATURN CRESCENT FORMED

p.78 THE ASTRAL JET WITHDREW, LEADING TO A NOVA, WHICH THINNED EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE

p.108 THE YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT WAS CAUSED BY THE SATURN NOVA
_"the cosmic event behind the inception of the Younger Dryas would have been the same proto-Saturnian flare-up that brought the previous [North American] Ice Age to its end - or, to be more precise, the cosmic dust [from the Saturn Nova] that enshrouded Earth in its aftermath.
_"It is not that meteoric rubble did not impound the terrestrial surface. On the contrary, a multitude of such bodies - detritus from proto-Saturn's flare-up and its circumstellar disk - hurtled through Earth's atmosphere, producing a series of air-shocks that scoured the land in various regions.
_"Among these cratered areas was the North Sea, the very region that had originally been occupied by Doggerland. The Storegga Slide we discussed above could therefore have been caused by this train of exploding bolides...."

p.128-129 THERE WAS NORTHWARD MIGRATION AFTER THE NOVA
_"DNA studies ... have now validated the northward migration of entire European populations at the end of the Younger Dryas period.1"

p.130-131 THERE'S SATURN NOVA EVIDENCE
"'Research published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences finds evidence of a major cosmic event near the end of the Ice Age....'4 ... Since, to us, the event in question was proto-Saturn's flare-up, it comes as no surprise that research now indicates it to have been severe enough to have 'scorched the air, melted bedrock and altered the course of Earth's history.'5
_"That this was more of a direct cosmic blast than the showering of minor discharges from splintered cosmic bodies is evidenced by the nature of the much disputed molten spherules that have been retrieved from the Younger Dryas Boundary. ... these spherules have been well analyzed and compared to similar ones that have been produced by atomic explosions such as the 1945 Trinity detonation in New Mexico.1 This, alone, should have told the researchers that the Ice Age terminating blast had to have been something much more powerful than minor discharges from cosmic debris. Proto-Saturn's radiant flare-up would have more than filled the bill. As if to clinch the matter, it has more recently been established that, to this day, Saturn remains much brighter than expected for a planet of its supposed age."

p.169 [CHAOS = CIRCUMSTELLAR DISK]
[.Chaos in the Bible was the circumstellar sea around Saturn. The Egg was Saturn's shrunken disk after the blinding flare.]

p.170 [SATURN = EGG YOLK; DISK = EGG WHITE]
[.The Egg was initially broken, the Yolk being Saturn and the White being the disk. Later, it was forgotten that the Egg was a broken Egg.]

p.177 [SATURN WOBBLED]
p.178 [GAP DEVELOPED BETWEEN SATURN & THE DISK]
p.190 [SEVEN COILS AROUND THE EGG]
[.The Egg developed into Creation? A stream of debris spiraled around Saturn.]

p.191 OUROBOROS [SERPENT AROUND EGG]
p.192 THE SEVENFOLD RIVER
p.197 [GOD'S EXAMPLE & LIGHT]
[.People seeing the Saturn configuration thought Saturn was God and that they were supposed to follow Saturn's example.]

p.200 [SACRED INTESTINES]
[.I guess the spiraling debris looked like intestines at first. People thought Saturn had spilled his intestines, so they developed a practice of cutting open victims' abdomens to see the intestines and foretell the future etc.

p.203 [UNDULATIONS]
p.207 [SEVENFOLD SPIRAL] [SATURN WANDERED, THEN RETURNED]
[.Earth wobbled, making it look like Saturn wandered?]

p.209 [CIRCLING OF COILS]
p.220 [SACRED SEVEN]
p.221 [GOD & SEA SERPENT] [SEVEN WATERS OF CHAOS]
[.It looked like Saturn had a sea serpent coiling around it seven times. The serpent looked somewhat like turbulent waters.]

p.222 [SPRAY FROM SHOULDERS] [SEVEN SEA SERPENTS] [MERGER WITH CELESTIAL SEA] [SEVEN SEAS OF LIGHT]
[.Maybe the spray from the shoulders of a god means that the debris from Saturn was erupting on two sides of it. Each coil of the serpent looked like a separate serpent. The spiraling debris merged with the Saturn disk. The serpents also looked like seven waterways of light, similar to Atlantis.]

p.223 [SEVEN DAYS = SEVEN SEAS]
[.Quoting the text.]
_... [To] some of the early Semites ... Creation took place in seven seas. ... [But] in the early writing of the Hebrews, the seven seas were misunderstood as a misrepresentation of seven days, not only because [days] made more sense, but because the difference between the Hebrew words for "sea" and "day" was a non-existent vowel. The word for "sea" in this language is yam; the word for day is yom. Early Hebrew, however, was written without vowels, so that both words were originally written as ym.

p.224 [CAME TO REST, DAY OF REST]
[.The Biblical seventh day of rest meant Saturn came to rest when the seventh coil of the spiral formed.]

p.226 [SEVEN HALLS OF OSIRIS]
[.The seven spirals around Saturn looked like hallways too.]

p.228 [NOVA SPIRAL, STAR WITHIN CIRCLE]
[.The ancient depiction of the star in a circle was based on Saturn surrounded by the circle of nova debris.]

p.230 THE SEVEN HEAVENS
p.231 [SEVEN HALLS] [HEAVENS MADE OF FIRE & WATER]
[.The seven halls looked like fire or water and were thought to be different heavens that souls passed through to reach God/Saturn.]

p.233 [SPIRIT WANDERING] [WORLDWIDE MYTH SIMILARITY]
p.234 CONCENTRIC ENCLOSURES [HALOS] [SEVEN SOULS] [SEVEN RAYS] [SEVEN RINGS]
[.God/Saturn seemed to have seven halos or souls, which people assumed people had as well.]

p.238 [DATING PETROGLYPHS] [SEVEN COILS]
[.I can look up Peratt's dating later. Petroglyphs show the coils that formed around Saturn.]

p.239 [SPIRAL FORMED BENEATH SATURN BEFORE FORMING RINGS]
[.Cardona said the Saturn nova debris was ejected toward Earth, but it somehow got into Saturn's equatorial plane.]

p.241 [PRESENT RINGS WERE SEEN FORMING] [SATURN'S SEVEN RINGS]
p.242 SEVEN BOUND IN THREE
[.The ancients saw Saturn's seven rings as they were forming. The seven rings are grouped into 3 wider rings, which were also seen. -- Actually, it's hard to see how a 7-fold spiral would have formed into 7 rings.]

p.257 [DATING CIRCLE & DOT]
[.This is more dating evidence.]

p.280 [GOBEKLI TEPE 3 RINGS]
p.285 [ANCIENT ADVANCED CLASS OF PEOPLE]
p.317 [MODERN PRIMITIVE SOCIETY]
[.The ancient structures at Gobekli Tepe and elsewhere required advanced knowledge and skills to build. A modern primitive society is described to give an idea of what most human society was likely like before the final Saturn nova events.]