The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.
BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Fri May 20, 2022 6:40 pm

nick c wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 3:18 pm
in the Electric Universe, there must be very different electrical conditions at work, in order to produce an elliptical structure versus a spiral.
Anthony Peratt’s simulations of interacting Birkeland currents were able to produce all the types of galaxies shapes and their emission characteristics. At lower power ranges, spirals were produced. As the power was increased, Seyfert-looking spirals began to appear. Next came ellipticals. Finally at very high power levels, double radio galaxies and quasar-like structures appeared. Now if we think about it, the power level density of the universe would have decreased over time from the Big Bang. Thus it would make sense that quasars and double radio galaxies would been produced first and be far way in time. Ellipticals would have appeared next and be very old, which would account for them primarily being made of old red stars. Moving on to spirals, they would begin to appear as the power density fell further in regions of the universe until near in time and space to us they dominate. Being so comparitively recently formed, they primarily consist of young stars. But all of these would have plasmoids at the center.

jackokie
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by jackokie » Sat May 21, 2022 1:15 pm

Or charge varies over time among the filaments of the galactic web, producing the galactic structures we see in our steady-state universe. I wouldn't be surprised to find resonant effects in the filaments.

High red-shift objects linked to or in front of low red-shift objects falsify the expanding universe theory, without which there is no big bang.
Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once.

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nick c
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by nick c » Sat May 21, 2022 2:19 pm

High red-shift objects linked to or in front of low red-shift objects falsify the expanding universe theory, without which there is no big bang.
Top
Yes, Halton Arp effectively falsified the Big Bang Theory. His book Seeing Red: Redshifts, Cosmology and Academic Science (1997) documents numerous observations demonstrating physical connections between high redshift quasars and low red shift galaxies, including at least one case where the high red shift quasar is in front of a low red shift galaxy.

https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Red-Redsh ... 0968368905

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Sat May 21, 2022 7:08 pm

jackokie wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 1:15 pm
Or charge varies over time among the filaments of the galactic web, producing the galactic structures we see in our steady-state universe. I wouldn't be surprised to find resonant effects in the filaments.

High red-shift objects linked to or in front of low red-shift objects falsify the expanding universe theory, without which there is no big bang.
Agreed. Either is possible at this point. Either way, black holes are not ubiquitous. Other mechanisms can explain what we see at the center of galaxies,their shape and characteristics ... and the jets. The so called Black Hole images of the mainstream are essentially wishful thinking produced by the methodology ... not the data.

Harry
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by Harry » Mon May 23, 2022 10:47 am

Using the term Black Hole is very misleading.
To understand the Electrics one needs to understand quantum dynamics.
Properties of condensates are the keys to understanding the Electric filaments throughout the universe.
Find the origin.
Understanding the dipolar electromagnetic filaments and vector fields that are directly originating from the core.

Cargo
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by Cargo » Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:53 am

Wait a minute, didn't we already go through this charade about these 'images' being total fantasy. This is no different from the last inferphotometer.

These timed discovers which have 'no effect' on the universe, are like the latest World Wrestling match. Sad, but true. Black Holes, are not true.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:12 pm

Looks like this story hasn't totally disappeared from view ... https://phys.org/news/2022-06-independe ... enter.html "Independent reanalysis of the M87 galactic center radio observational data". It would be nice if someone in the media would follow up with details of the debate that must now be taking place between the mainstream camp and these Japanese researchers, since neither side is reportable backing down on what they believe. Are the Japanese going to analyze the Milky Way data in a similar manner? That would be wonderful.

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:40 am

Yeah ... apparently the Japanese are not backing down.

https://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2022063001348

"Tokyo, June 30 (Jiji Press)--A team of Japanese researchers Thursday challenged an international group's declaration in April 2019 that it succeeded in capturing a direct image of a black hole for the first time in history.
The Japanese team, including assistant professor Miyoshi Makoto of the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan, concluded that the international group that used the Event Horizon Telescope failed to capture the image of the black hole.
In the EHT project, astronomers observed the huge black hole in the M87 galaxy 55 million light-years away from Earth, spent about two years to analyze the observation data and constructed the image of what they say is the black hole in a bright ring.
The Japanese team reanalyzed the data, made available to the public by the EHT group, with a different method and did not obtain any such image. It instead obtained images showing a core, where the black hole is believed to exist, in addition to a high-speed astrophysical jet extending from the core and "knots" apparently forming part of the jet.
"The M87 galaxy is famous for the jet, but the EHT team did not detect it. Our results show the jet, which is consistent with past observation results," Miyoshi said."


https://www.tellerreport.com/life/2022- ... Nqo55.html

"Meanwhile, an international research group that announced that it had photographed the ring-shaped structure of a black hole commented, "Observation data has been analyzed by four independent research groups so far, and all of them reproduce ring-shaped images. The content published this time is based on a wrong understanding. "It may become an academic discussion in the future""

Why am I skeptical of the mainstream claim that four *independent** groups have reproduced the ring shaped images?

Perhaps because I suspect they all use the same flawed procedure?

And I doubt their funding is independent of the agencies pushing the black hole meme.

I bet they are all knee deep in the these-are-black-hole funding mud.

And what's meant by that last comment?

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:49 am

Here's a link to the Japanese study ...

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... 357/ac6ddb

Harry
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by Harry » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:25 am

Galaxy Formation is dependent on the stability of the core matter.
Unstable jets create an elliptical Galaxy.
In the case of M87, its undergoing a stable jet, as indicated by the strong jet created, about 100,000 Lyrs.
In the case of spiral galaxies the stable jets have formed the arms of the spiral galaxies.
One needs to follow the money in this case follow the power source.

The property of the core.
Chiral Supper Symmetry Dipolar Electromagnetic Vector fields.

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:13 pm

Notice the silence from the mainstream about the study by Miyoshi, Kate and Making challenging the claimed ring structure in the EHTC black hole image? Sky Scholar, P-M Robitaille, who previously published several videos quite skeptical of the mainstreams so-called black hole image, put out this video in July noting “Three Honest Astronomers Agree - The Black Hole Image is an Artifact?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrTe1mi5EQ

He notes in particular the statement by the Japanese scientists that “the u-v coverage of the EHT array for M87 can create the ~40 uas [micro-asec] ring regardless of the real structure of the observed object. In other words, the EHTC result is indistinguishable from artifact”, which he shows confirms exactly what he said in his earlier videos about the so-called mainstreams ring “image”.

He also notes that his criticism of the signal to noise ratio in the mainstream's analysis of the data is confirmed by the Japanese study. He notes that the EHT papers state “For many EHT baselines, the astronomical signal is not detectable above the noise until phase corrections resulting from these calibration solutions are applied and the data coherently (vector) averaged.” In contrast, the Japanese said they “set the SNR cutoff =3 for safety. This SNR cutoff value is larger than what many researchers use in the end. Solutions that did not meet the criteria (SNR cutoff) were flagged and abandoned.” His point is that "the Japanese were being careful" whereas the EHTC people were "calling noise signal”, “a sure sign of pathological science.” (You gotta love Dr Robitaille way with words.)

He also explains his third criticism … again noted by the Japanese … that the EHTC folks used just 184 megabytes (192,937,984) of data from a 5 petabyte (5,629,499,534,213,120) data set and that the “complete data set contains powerful signals from numerous radio sources in the sky and those signals must be perfectly removed in order to get the small residual image that astrophysics seeks.” He observes that extracting weak signals in the presence of powerful signals is always a challenge in imaging and that challenge will grow significantly as the data set expands.” Then he notes that “there is no means to validate any of the resulting images” and the methodology itself will result in “unknown and unrecognized errors” that will produce “artifacts that cannot be resolved from actual signal.”

Finally, he says that the Japanese found an additional problem that he missed They noted that the EHT collaboration noticed sudden large amplitude errors at one of their detection stations when examining calibration solutions”. The Japanese wrote : “These large amplitude solutions may have implied that the resultant image is significantly wrong” and “if such large amplitudes found in self-calibration solutions are negative signs against the resultant image quality, the results obtained by both the EHTC and our work should be rejected.”

Another important observation from the video is that Doctor Robitaille notes that no-one will be able to get a jet image from the Milkyway’s Sgr A because no one has reported jet emissions. So it seems to me that when the Japanese get around to applying their methodology to the Milky Way core (I sure hope they do) and produce an image without a jet, perhaps that will help confirm theirs is not the methodology with problems.

Finally, Robitaille states at the end of the video a theme growing dear to my heart ... “How much longer must taxpayers keep supporting the folly which astrophysics has become?” It's not the responsibility of taxpayers to provide lucrative, life long employment to thousands of bogus astrophysicists. Just saying ...

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:10 am

I’ve seen no rebuttal of the Japanese paper challenging the mainstream’s 2019 EHT image of M87.

If any of you have, by all means, point me to it.

Instead, I see mainstream scientists are now claiming (https://www.space.com/supermassive-blac ... ring-image) they’ve “remastered” the original image to reveal the “bright ‘photon ring’” predicted by black hole theory in it. “To do this," they article says, "the team took the EHT's first image of M87's supermassive black hole and stripped away various elements of the image.” Stripped away various elements of an image that was already controversial and possibly nothing but nonsense? Hmmmmmm.

Now I suspect they basically rely on the same potentially flawed procedure as their last image. Indeed, the article above quotes Dominic Pesce, a co-author of the latest work, saying “The approach we took involved leveraging our theoretical understanding of how these black holes look to build a customized model for the EHT data.” Sound familiar? It should. That’s what they did before. I bet they forced the data to additionally pump out a narrow ring image. And since they haven’t even responded to the Japanese paper, one wonders why?

Now here’s the paper they published: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... 357/ac7c1d . It states “The analyses behind these findings included multiple image-reconstruction algorithms, model fitting in the visibility domain employing various geometric shapes, and an extensive investigation of physical emission models.” It short, they used preconceived notions of what they should see and perhaps a method that looks only for those in the data. The paper indicates that they started out by “reconstruct”ing the image that was produced in the 2019 study. Which perhaps means the data they used had the same limitations that the Japanese and Robitaille complained about.

Now remember how the Japanese and Robitaille noted the ~40 uas resolution in the first image … and felt that wasn’t good enough to obtain the result they got? Now, they claim to have imaged a narrow ring requiring a resolution of ~1 uas using Bayesian statistics. Amazing, isn’t it? They say “While we may not expect to be able to spatially resolve the thickness of this ring with the 2017 EHT array, its ∼40 μas diameter should still imprint itself on the visibility data.” And wa-la! They claim to find that “imprint”. At least that’s the way I read it, although it’s easy to get lost in the mathematical/statistical jargon and handwaving about uncertainties.

But at least these folks say they were able to see traces of the jet that the Japanese clearly observed. In any case, I look forward to Japanese and Robitaille analysis of this study’s image too. In the mean time, note that Avery Broderick, lead researcher, says "The result was possible because the EHT is a computational instrument at its heart. It is as dependent on algorithms as it is upon steel.” And if those algorithms are flawed? Then perhaps they’ve wasted millions of taxpayer dollars so far. And will waste more in the future?

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:21 am

I’m not the only one questioning the imaging of a “photon ring” …

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/dis ... -image-eht
Physicists dispute a claim of detecting a black hole’s ‘photon ring’

… snip …

Creating images with EHT isn’t a simple point-and-shoot affair (SN: 4/10/19). Researchers stitch together data from EHT’s squad of observatories scattered across the globe, using various computational techniques to reconstruct an image. Broderick and colleagues created a new black hole image assuming it featured both a diffuse emission and a thin ring. On three out of four days of observations, the data better matched an image with the added thin ring than one without the ring.

But that method has drawn harsh criticism. “The claim of a photon ring detection is preposterous,” says physicist Sam Gralla of the University of Arizona in Tucson.

A main point of contention: The photon ring is brighter than expected, emitting around 60 percent of the light in the image. According to predictions, it should be more like 20 percent. “That’s a giant red flag,” says physicist Alex Lupsasca of Vanderbilt University in Nashville. More light should come from the black hole’s main glowing doughnut than from the thin photon ring.

This unexpected brightness, Broderick and colleagues say, occurs because some of the light from the main glow gets lumped in with the photon ring. So the ring’s apparent brightness doesn’t depend only on the light coming from the ring. The researchers note that the same effect appeared when testing the method on simulated data.

But that mishmash of purported photon ring light with other light doesn’t make for a very convincing detection, critics say. “If you want to claim that you’ve seen a photon ring, I think you have to do a better job than this,” says astrophysicist Dan Marrone of the University of Arizona, a member of the EHT collaboration who was not a coauthor on the new paper.

The new result suggests only that an added thin ring gives a better match to the data, Marrone says, not whether that shape is associated with the photon ring. So it raises the question of whether scientists are seeing a photon ring at all, or just picking out an unrelated structure in the image.

…. snip …

Meanwhile, in a similar, independent analysis, Gralla and physicist Will Lockhart, also of the University of Arizona, find no evidence for a photon ring, they report in a paper submitted August 22 at arXiv.org. Their analysis differed from Broderick and colleagues’ in part because it limited how bright the photon ring could be.
Here’s the paper in that second analysis …

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2208.09989.pdf

Now folks, remember that media and internet were awash for a few days with announcements about imaging the photon ring.

Wonder how much coverage this news will get?

Who am I kidding? :roll:

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:30 am

Here’s an example that shows just how worthless the current scientific journal process is for anything other than spreading one’s propaganda. Recall that mainstream astronomers and astrophysicists, using a very complicated procedure, *created* an image of the M87 black hole from data. The image matched what the mainstream had been expecting (many said, at the time, because the way the process worked) and the mainstream media dutifully blasted it all over the world so that soon most everyone believed astronomers had photographed a black hole ... so black holes must exist.

But back in May and June of 2022, when Japanese Astronomers took the exact same data, did their own analysis, came up with results that did not match the expectation of the mainstream and then got their work published in The Astrophysics Journal (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... 357/ac6ddb), there were a few media mentions of this, but once the mainstream came out and simply announced the Japanese were mistaken (https://eventhorizontelescope.org/blog/ ... s-eht-data), without saying why, their work effectively went down a black hole. From then on, it was ignored by not only the public but by the whole mainstream scientific community.

I used to believe that when two scientific camps came up with two very divergent results concerning the same phenomena, the scientists involved would go back and forth debating the truth until one or the other prevailed. And the reason why one case was wrong would become clear. But in this case, that hasn’t happened. Believe me, I’ve looked, but so far I find no such *debate* took place. The mainstream simple said … *you’re wrong* … and that was it. The mainstream truly has a lock on the whole process. I wonder if those Japanese scientists even still have a job.

In any case, we are all just supposed to keep believing the mainstream is right … and keep sending them money.

BeAChooser
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Re: The Milky Way's Black Hole Imaged ...

Unread post by BeAChooser » Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:45 pm

Here they are, recycling old news to keep the interest alive (because interest equates to funding) …

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo ... r-AA15z1GI
We saw the supermassive black hole at the centre of our galaxy in 2022
What I wonder is what ever happened to the Japanese team that reanalyzed the same data and got a much different result? You don’t suppose they’re being held in some dark dungeon somewhere … never to be seen again?

Meanwhile, our noble scientists are on the hunt for yet another black hole … https://scitechdaily.com/astrophysicist ... f-the-sun/ . They must think it a threat to spend this much time and effort looking for it! They did say finding it would be “groundbreaking”! But since finding it would, in their words, “challenge everything we know about how galaxies and their central supermassive black holes coevolve”, I suspect that if they find it, it will then be quietly forgotten. Because some things are too big to fail.

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