Dinosaurs too heavy to stand/fly problem solved?

[ztifbob]

I found an excellent proposed solution to the seeming impossibility of many dinosaurs to exist given their size. This science (Physics/math) teacher has thought out his science based (and to my knowledge very original) idea well, amd made a clear informative website to present it. His solution could have a tie in to the EU, let me know your thoughts. If you're a proponent of expanding earth theory prepare to be disappointed. This link jumps you to the pertinent intro to the problem but you may want to go back & click on the home button. Enjoy:

http://www.dinosaurtheory.com/big_dinosaur.html

[justcurious]

The article is very long and I did not find the solution, only problems. Gt tired of reading.
Maybe you can summarize the solution? So it is not due to dinosaurs living in a time of weaker gravity on Earth?

[ztifbob]

Like Saturn theory i recommend reading the material as the 'answer' will seem lacking support or not make sense.
He provides the support & it does make sense, to me at least. Here is a link that jumps to what you're looking for, but you will still have to read some.

http://www.dinosaurtheory.com/solution.html

The final two chapters which give you more of the picture along with upshots & the like cost $6 by paypal, i have not done that yet.

As per this investigator, some whales are huge & graceful under sea but would collapse on land were it not for the buoyancy they find in the water. An atmosphere of higher pressure is part of the under water experience. Very large land based creatures would also benefit from great buoyancy if the atmosphere was one of greater pressure. The huge tails, long necks, large rear legs etc. of many dinos look suited to an amphibian like motion for an on land setting...with a much thicker atmosphere than we enjoy today.

Like the ancients myths, rock art, & other cultural artifacts that bear witness to the earth era they were created to document (as David Talbott has so has perfectly distilled for us in his work). So too are the dinosaurs' very existence a witnessing for us to unravel. I think the gentleman i linked to may have done this. He graciously answered my email & if enough people show interest i will link him to this discussion & perhaps he will join us.

[justcurious]

Thanks. I'll save everyone the hassle of having to read through the masses of justifications and refutations of other theories and summarize it here.
The theory is based on a thick atmosphere providing buoyancy (sort of how you feel lighter in water).
An executive summary would be nice if one wants to interest others into further reading. my 2 cents.

[ztifbob]

Thank you Mr. New York minute for your 2 cents 9i say this as a New Yorker btw ...nothing snide meant by that, but i have found in these kind of discussions often people seem not to have read the material but rather cut to the chase & plug it into their already made-up picture of the way things are. I say this from personal experience. I initially put off giving much time to the Saturn theories of David Talbott as on first glance it seemed a bit far fetched. thankfully, after digesting other views i came back & read the material to find how comprehensive & well thought out his position is. It reveled there is much lacking to the material i was eagerly reading of others. Others who are dismissive of Talbott's work i should add.
Anyhow i wanted to give this dinosaur problem a more decent introduction than, "some guy thinks the atmosphere was thicker & that explains the dinsaur issue away", for this reason.

[Aardwolf]

This "solution" cannot work.

Water is 1,000 denser than air and as water based animals have near the same average density they can easilly manoeuvre in water by slightly adjusting their density using their swim bladders. They dont fly in water they just operate near the same density.

I dont know how much this solution is increasing air pressuse but a small increase would be negligible and a large one is more likely to render the planet uninhabitable. Also where did all the extra atmosphere go and why?

Another problem is that a lot of stress would be encountered to fly in a dense atmosphere. The Meganeura was a predator with a 2 foot gossamer wingspan. There's no chance those wings would be sufficient for rapid predatory movement in a dense atmosphere .

[GaryN]

This older thread covered a number of possible explanations, and I'm surprised the article you link to does not even mention tensegrity, though it is known that even with humans, without the tensegrity model, the weight of our heads would crush our neck vertebrae.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44
Tensegrity: The New Biomechanics
http://www.biotensegrity.com/tensegrity ... hanics.php

[ztifbob]

This older thread covered a number of possible explanations, and I'm surprised the article you link to does not even mention tensegrity, though it is known that even with humans, without the tensegrity model, the weight of our heads would crush our neck vertebrae.

Well Mr. Eskar does state his prefered means of scientific inquiry on this page:
http://www.dinosaurtheory.com/solution.html

Given what i read there he may have found bio-tensegrity an as of yet of unstandardized area. I could be wrong but he also states a preference for simplicity in approach. My guess is he found the issues dinos face vastly out of wack beyond what bio-tengresity might account for. Also the mechanics are but one (but most interesting to most, myself included) consideration in this question.
That previous thread has a lot, some which will no doubt come up again. Though that thread is sorta tensegrity rich but otherwise all over the map. And the ideas read much differently than what i see in the dinosaurtheory.com links i have posted. Only one or two posts out of 10 pages even mention atmospheric pressure significantly so i think breaking this one approach out from other contenders is worthwile & leave the tai chi, expanding earth etc. ideas there. Btw I love Warren Carrey's books & the related youtube clips but i think there is worth in keeping the variables down to considering this one proposed solution.
I have emailed this thread's link to the author & hope he responds here to the questions that are already popping up.

[Aardwolf]

This older thread covered a number of possible explanations, and I'm surprised the article you link to does not even mention tensegrity, though it is known that even with humans, without the tensegrity model, the weight of our heads would crush our neck vertebrae.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44
Tensegrity: The New Biomechanics
http://www.biotensegrity.com/tensegrity ... hanics.php

I don't see how biotensegrity can explain pterosaurs, meganeura etc. It also gives no explanation why have no sauropod sized animals now or in recent history.

[meemoe_uk]

How come no mention on this thread of the Expanding Earth theory? the so-called gravity force has changed over time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3HWjvIhVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSSIpP3r9w

[Aardwolf]

How come no mention on this thread of the Expanding Earth theory? the so-called gravity force has changed over time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3HWjvIhVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSSIpP3r9w

Indeed. For me it's the only theory that provides all the answers however it has it's own extensive thread;

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =10&t=1184

[Atlas]

This older thread covered a number of possible explanations, and I'm surprised the article you link to does not even mention tensegrity, though it is known that even with humans, without the tensegrity model, the weight of our heads would crush our neck vertebrae.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44
Tensegrity: The New Biomechanics
http://www.biotensegrity.com/tensegrity ... hanics.php

I don't see how biotensegrity can explain pterosaurs, meganeura etc. It also gives no explanation why have no sauropod sized animals now or in recent history.

Agreed. A rudimentary understanding of physics leads us to conclude that, in our gravitational environment, our world cannot support creatures the size of the Empire State Building. They would crush themselves under their own weight. We should also know that elephants are able to survive, so how much larger can an animal be? We just don't know enough to be able to answer that question, but it's my belief that it's probably a combination of several factors. Factors we won't know more about until we have more minds and research delving into the mysteries of the EU.

[Genius Gone Insane]

In my opinion, Electric Universe theory, Expanding Earth theory, and the thicker atmosphere during the dinosaur era go hand in hand. This makes perfect sense:

1. The earth used to have a single land mass that was extremely muddy
2. This land mass was much smaller in circumference than the earth's current land mass
3. The atmosphere was some sort of thick liquid/gel high in water content, possibly something equivalent to Pollack's exclusion zone
4. Heavy electrical activity caused the earth to expand
5. Heavy electrical activity "popped" the liquid/gel atmosphere, leaving salt water seas

Far-fetched as it sounds to today's humans, I think something to this effect will be common knowledge in the next few hundred years. The key to making this discovery will be the elimination of the subduction theory. Additionally, we need to figure out exactly what would have caused our seas to be salten.

What seems clear is that the 7 seas are relatively new to the earth. Where did they come from? And why are they salty?

[ztifbob]

In my opinion, Electric Universe theory, Expanding Earth theory, and the thicker atmosphere during the dinosaur era go hand in hand. This makes perfect sense:

1. The earth used to have a single land mass that was extremely muddy
2. This land mass was much smaller in circumference than the earth's current land mass
3. The atmosphere was some sort of thick liquid/gel high in water content, possibly something equivalent to Pollack's exclusion zone
4. Heavy electrical activity caused the earth to expand
5. Heavy electrical activity "popped" the liquid/gel atmosphere, leaving salt water seas

Far-fetched as it sounds to today's humans, I think something to this effect will be common knowledge in the next few hundred years. The key to making this discovery will be the elimination of the subduction theory. Additionally, we need to figure out exactly what would have caused our seas to be salten.

What seems clear is that the 7 seas are relatively new to the earth. Where did they come from? And why are they salty?

Good stuff..i too was wondering about salinity recently.

[tholden]

Thanks. I'll save everyone the hassle of having to read through the masses of justifications and refutations of other theories and summarize it here.
The theory is based on a thick atmosphere providing buoyancy (sort of how you feel lighter in water).
An executive summary would be nice if one wants to interest others into further reading. my 2 cents.

That doesn't work at all. Air that thick would be unbreathable. Muscle tissue burns oxygen and what you'd have would be a biochemical version of the thing where the idiot redneck pours liquid oxygen on his bar-bq grill to see what happens.

Likewise Adrien Desmond noted that a flying creature even as large as a pteranodon would snap his wing bones just trying to hold his wings rigid in a turn in today's gravity and thicker air would just make that problem worse.

The largest dinosaurs would require a 3 - 1 reduction of present gravity just to stand with the same level of effort as a maximal competitive lift and they had to be able to stand and walk much more easily than that.

The ONLY thing that really answers the mail on this one is Ralph Sansbury's analysis of what gravity actually is (an electrostatic dipole effect and not a basic force in nature) and an understanding that gravity in past ages was heavily attenuated.