Instantaneous motion.

[upriver]

Instantaneous motion.

Experiment:

2 sets of particles in a line in free space. They are touching each other. Elastic collisions - i.e. no energy loss in the collision.

One set of spherical particles the individual particles can can move instantly.

The other set is a standard set of particles from our laws of physics with the same dimensions as the previous set. The only difference is that the previous set has instant movement..

You line them up bucket brigade style and then you introduce an impulse into the end of both set of particles.

What is your expected result at the end of both particle lines? Are the travel time the same for both sets?

What do you have to do to make both lines the same, what physical matter property when removed, would allow for instant movement?

[querious]

Instantaneous motion.

Experiment:

2 sets of particles in a line in free space. They are touching each other. Elastic collisions - i.e. no energy loss in the collision.

One set of spherical particles the individual particles can can move instantly.

The other set is a standard set of particles from our laws of physics with the same dimensions as the previous set. The only difference is that the previous set has instant movement..

You line them up bucket brigade style and then you introduce an impulse into the end of both set of particles.

What is your expected result at the end of both particle lines? Are the travel time the same for both sets?

What do you have to do to make both lines the same, what physical matter property when removed, would allow for instant movement?

The limit for matter is how fast the charges that make it up can transmit forces, which has a max of c.

[upriver]

Instantaneous motion.

Experiment:

2 sets of particles in a line in free space. They are touching each other. Elastic collisions - i.e. no energy loss in the collision.

One set of spherical particles the individual particles can can move instantly.

The other set is a standard set of particles from our laws of physics with the same dimensions as the previous set. The only difference is that the previous set has instant movement..

You line them up bucket brigade style and then you introduce an impulse into the end of both set of particles.

What is your expected result at the end of both particle lines? Are the travel time the same for both sets?

What do you have to do to make both lines the same, what physical matter property when removed, would allow for instant movement?

The limit for matter is how fast the charges that make it up can transmit forces, which has a max of c.

So your saying for standard matter, they dont actually touch because of the fields? And that precludes them from transmitting forces faster than light(instantly).

So let make the case where it is singular particles, not atoms.

Then lets make a case where there is an infinitesimal space between the particles. Bucket Brigade.

[webolife]

If I understand the premise of this thought experiment, it is to demonstrate that because of elasticity of matter there can be no instantaneous transfer of motion between two particles/fields. Is that a good summary?

[querious]

So your saying for standard matter, they dont actually touch because of the fields? And that precludes them from transmitting forces faster than light(instantly).

Yes, and yes.

So let make the case where it is singular particles, not atoms.

Then lets make a case where there is an infinitesimal space between the particles. Bucket Brigade.

Not sure what you mean by "singular particles - electrons? grains of sand? Hypothetical particles?

[webolife]

I'm realizing I used "elasticity" when I meant "inelasticity"

I'm picturing Newton's cradle at any particular hierarchal level... let's start with the table top variety and consider atoms and planet sized objects later. The "law" of conservation of momentum states that the amount of momentum of the last ball[s] is ideally equal to the momentum of the first ball[s] to strike; the "non-ideal", ie. real, situation is that there is some kinetic energy lost as entropy/heat/friction such that the amount of momentum is thereby reduced, while energy is still conserved. If we suppose that the cradle is set up with optimal elastic conditions, whatever those may be, there is still the operant field, gravitation, in play, ie. this is a falling object, not simply a horizontal transfer of energy. So in my Centropic Pressure Field Theory, there will be a net reduction of momentum directly due to the net centropic action that occurs in any physical interaction. If this could be done in zero grav on the ISS, it would be interesting to note to what extent momentum is reduced and what heat is recorded... while we try to conceive of this ideally, is there a real setup for this experiment that can be done with no frictional elements involved in the maintenance of the alignment of the balls?

Is there such a thing as an elastic collision in the real universe?
Is the philosophical reason for an "aether" to account for a finite c?

What if light is not particles interacting through mechanical transfer of momentum?

[webolife]

Instantaneous motion is an oxymoron.
For my instantaneous action to make sense, one must view a field as a single entity.

[upriver]

Instantaneous motion is an oxymoron.
For my instantaneous action to make sense, one must view a field as a single entity.

So like a Bose-Einstein condensate aether??

[upriver]

So your saying for standard matter, they dont actually touch because of the fields? And that precludes them from transmitting forces faster than light(instantly).

Yes, and yes.

So let make the case where it is singular particles, not atoms.

Then lets make a case where there is an infinitesimal space between the particles. Bucket Brigade.

Not sure what you mean by "singular particles - electrons? grains of sand? Hypothetical particles?

Yes, an electron sized particle that you can arbitrarily set the distance to the next electron sized particle for the purposes of this experiment.
Or for the purposes of an aether, planck length or smaller spherical particles.

All of the parameters or properties of the test particle system can be set for each experiment.

Though for purposes of instantaneous signaling the size of the particle shouldnt matter. But for massive signaling the size of the particle does matter assuming that changing one parameter allows you to signal FTL....

[webolife]

Instantaneous motion is an oxymoron.
For my instantaneous action to make sense, one must view a field as a single entity.

So like a Bose-Einstein condensate aether??

Interesting idea... I don't envision a particular aether actually, although if it turns out there is some sort of "planck" sized particulate subparticle throughout space, I envision it behaving as though there were instantaneous action across a distance. I don't envision "FTL" because I believe light action is an instant effect between peripheral and centroidal loci in a single field, although there is always allowance for a delay in the relay of light during absorption and reflection such as a photoelectric, photo-chemical-electric, electron dipole deformation or what have you. Some have suggested a sort of "solid" aether, others a liquid, or a superconducting fluid of some kind. But what could be more superconducting than the "non-resistivity" of empty space?? At least for light action... All that aside, I see the geometry of space to be a connective matrix between bodies, particularly the geometry of isogons [ie. equilateral traingles] and hexagons, intermeshing with the geometry of squares, such that the relationships between rt-3 and rt-2 become operational ratios/constants to describe structures and interactions, and especially the properties of light and color. But that may be a total divergence from this thread?

[Webbman]

I don't believe there can be instantaneous motion because motion and time are essentially the same thing.

i don't believe light is the fastest thing in the universe. (unimpeded) Light is the fastest a particle can travel. Motion waves can travel faster on an aligned force strand as a pressure wave or slower transverse wave (AKA electric field) . Still both are faster than light.

None are instant because if they were time would not exist. The sun knows where we are long before its light gets here. Time is the very essence of motion in progress.

[webolife]

Webbman
As a concrete test of your notion, hold the end of a meter stick between your fingers, pull on it, and tell me how long it takes for the other end of the meter stick to get moving in your direction?
The c-rate may be the fastest an object can move, but your FT-c strand waves notwithstanding, I don't believe light moves at all. Therefore it must the "fastest".

[Webbman]

Webbman
As a concrete test of your notion, hold the end of a meter stick between your fingers, pull on it, and tell me how long it takes for the other end of the meter stick to get moving in your direction?
The c-rate may be the fastest an object can move, but your FT-c strand waves notwithstanding, I don't believe light moves at all. Therefore it must the "fastest".

I do find it difficult to accept that given the ease of casting a shadow by placing something in front of the light. I think they just bounce around until they run out of energy and become electrons again.

[webolife]

"They" bounce around... light "particles"?
What does casting a shadow have to do with c?
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about...

Let's try to define "shadow" shall we?
Take your coffee mug and lift it to a position blocking the local lamplight. When the mug is in front of the light, the light is still acting, it's just that the opaque object has become the "virtual" field periphery point, in place of my eye. However, a different type of sensor, say an x-ray machine, IR sensor or a radio antenna, will still detect light in the direction of the centroid light source.
A gravitational analogy. Place your coffee mug back on the table. It appears to be in a gravitational shadow, ie. that gravitation is not affecting it... it appears that the mug is already on the ground. However a different type of sensor [eg. a scale under the mug] will indicate that indeed the gravitational force is still in effect. Further, if I remove the "opaque" table quickly, the mug will fall on it's merry way to the floor.
In the CPFT, not only are light and gravitation analogous [along with voltage/charge, nuclear force, etc.], they are actually homologous, different manifestations of the same underlying centropic field. All things are interconnected thereby, a unified field, and both light and gravitation are understood to be instantaneous actions at a distance.