From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Siggy_G
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From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by Siggy_G » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:42 am

A little far fetched maybe, but really interesting paper:

http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/9/8/263/fulltext
Abstract. Complex plasmas may naturally self-organize themselves into stable interacting helical structures that exhibit features normally attributed to organic living matter. The self-organization is based on non-trivial physical mechanisms of plasma interactions involving over-screening of plasma polarization. As a result, each helical string composed of solid microparticles is topologically and dynamically controlled by plasma fluxes leading to particle charging and over-screening, the latter providing attraction even among helical strings of the same charge sign. These interacting complex structures exhibit thermodynamic and evolutionary features thought to be peculiar only to living matter such as bifurcations that serve as `memory marks', self-duplication, metabolic rates in a thermodynamically open system, and non-Hamiltonian dynamics. We examine the salient features of this new complex `state of soft matter' in light of the autonomy, evolution, progenity and autopoiesis principles used to define life. It is concluded that complex self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter that may exist in space provided certain conditions allow them to evolve naturally.

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by Dotini » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:27 am

Fascinating but not surprising to me.

I've direct first person experience with UFO's, and they look like plasma to me. Many people who live in the American midwest have had encounters with ball lightning, which is occasionally reported to exhibit lifelike or playful, inquisitive or interactive relations with humans. In Norway, you have the Hessdalen lights which may be related to this phenomenon. On the Yakima reservation in the shadow of Mt. Adams in Washington State, USA, US government geologists had occasion to closely photograph orange balls of light which would float above ridge lines and confuse firewatchers. They were seen to consist of many glowing balls of light inside a glowing ball of light, and would sometimes follow or otherwise interact with people who got too close to them.

Siggy G, the article you have provided seems to provide a basis to suspect that UFO's might be a natural living phenomenon based on plasma physics.

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Dotini

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junglelord
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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by junglelord » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:13 am

A famous case of orange goblin lights that appeared nightly and lasted for over a year, a hundred years ago, was just two miles west from my house. They would play games. It was way to early to fake this stuff. It was seen and investigated by scientist from Toronto and Montreal.
Sightings of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) are hardly a new phenomenon. They have been documented throughout the centuries and all over the globe. Here in Canada, reports CBC Assignment's Rex Lambert, one of the oldest and most curious paranormal events dates back to 1845. One September evening near Cornwall, Ont., a farmer notices brilliant dancing lights surrounding Marsh Point Farm.

Soon more and more people witness the spectacular lights accompanied by strange sounds of clanging and explosion. Befuddled neighbours decide to keep an overnight watch but fail to solve the mystery. After a year, the bizarre manifestations slowly disappear without a trace. Despite interviewing numerous witnesses and scientists, no credible explanation is ever offered for the strange activities at Marsh Point Farm.
You can hear the entire story here.
http://archives.cbc.ca/science_technolo ... lips/4395/

PS, it only makes sense that plasma models the behaviour of life itself.
These holographic fractal properties are inherent in this matrix of the EU.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by kevin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:23 pm

Wow,
Something with science in it's name that is fabulous.
I m all in a spin, I spin this way and that way, luckily uncle fibonacci keeps me organised.
Kevin

Dotini
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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by Dotini » Mon May 03, 2010 2:34 pm

“In 2003, physicists; Erzilia Lozneanu and Mircea Sanduloviciu of Cuza University, Romania, described in their research paper Minimal Cell System created in Laboratory by Self-Organization (published in Chaos, Solitons & Fractals, volume 18, page 335), how they created plasma spheres in the laboratory that can grow, replicate and communicate, fulfilling most of the traditional requirements for biological cells. They are convinced that these plasma spheres offer a radically new explanation of how life began and proposed that they were precursors to biological evolution.”

“According to Sanduloviciu, these plasma spheres were the first cells on Earth, arising within electrical storms, and he believes that the emergence of such spheres is a prerequisite for the evolution of biological cells.”

http://www.mysterious-america.net/plasmaufos.html

http://www.mysterious-america.net/piedmont2yakimau.html

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by jacmac » Mon May 03, 2010 8:03 pm

Siggy_G,

I have seen that abstract and I liked it.
It has been too long to remember details, but Buckminster Fuller, years ago, said that viruses bridged the organic and inorganic realms. Organic while active and inorganic (crystals) when dormant. This points to a continuum of "life".

From wikipedia:
"Viruses are most often considered replicators rather than forms of life. They have been described as "organisms at the edge of life",[21] since they possess genes, evolve by natural selection,[22] and replicate by creating multiple copies of themselves through self-assembly. However, viruses do not metabolise and require a host cell to make new products. Virus self-assembly within host cells has implications for the study of the origin of life, as it may support the hypothesis that life could have started as self-assembling organic molecules.[23][24]"

Or perhaps self-assembling inorganic matter ( electric plasma ) that does its self assembling in proximity to basic organic chemicals such as in the Miller- Urey Experiment:

"The Miller-Urey experiment was an experiment that simulated hypothetical conditions present on the early Earth in order to test what kind of environment would be needed to allow life to begin. The experiment is considered to be the classic experiment on the origin of life. It was conducted in 1953 by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey at the University of Chicago.
"The experiment used water (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2) - materials which were believed to represent the major components of the early Earth's atmosphere. The chemicals were all sealed and circulated inside a sterile array of glass tubes and flasks connected together in a loop, with one flask half-full of liquid water and another flask containing a pair of electrodes. The liquid water was heated to add water vapour to the chemical mixture and the resulting gases were circulated around the apparatus, simulating the Earth's atmosphere. The flask with heated water represents water on the Earth's surface and the recycled water vapor is just as water evaporates from lakes and seas, before going into the atmosphere and forming into rain. SPARKS WERE FIRED between the electrodes to simulate lightning storms (believed to be common on the early earth) through the water vapors, and then the vapors were cooled again so that the water could condense (simulating the oceans) and trickle back into the first water flask in a continuous cycle.
"At the end of one week of continuous operation, Miller and Urey observed, by analyzing the cooled water, that as much as 10-15% of the carbon within the system was now in the form of organic compounds. Two percent of the carbon had formed amino acids, including 13 of the 22 that are used to make proteins in living cells, with glycine as the most abundant.
"The molecules produced were simple organic molecules, far from a complete living biochemical system, but the experiment established that the hypothetical processes could produce some building blocks of life without requiring life to synthesize them first."

The electric energy seems to be everywhere and at all scales. I am somewhat overwhelmed sometimes. Perhaps I am drinking too much coffee??

Later,
Jack
Last edited by jacmac on Mon May 03, 2010 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by GaryN » Tue May 04, 2010 11:05 am

Hi jacmac,
I'm sure that "Bucky" was as close as anyone at understanding the true nature of reality.
326.31 Comprehensive Universe combines both the metaphysical Universe and the physical Universe.

1075.12 Physical is always special case. Energy is physical and always special case. Information is always special case. Energy is information: information is energy. Special case is always realized by its energetic information. Dimension is unique frequency information. Time incrementation is special case information. Concept is general: information is quantitative (special case).
I consider the neutrino as an information carrier, and that the information can be transferred to matter under certain conditions. There are some experiments that demonstrate interaction of the neutrino with plasma within a magnetic field. Perhaps the experiment you mention shows results because of information shaping matter?

The Double Tetrahedron is also known as a Star Tetrahedron or the Mer-Kah-ba.
Within it lies the energy that holds all life together. The bonds that hold atoms, particles and molecules together, all the way down to nanoparticles and all the way up to macroparticles, are tetrahedral.
If energy is information, then I can read that it is information that holds all life together?

http://metatranspiration.wordpress.com/ ... -revealed/
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by jacmac » Wed May 05, 2010 6:01 pm

GaryN,
Thanks for the tetrahedron link.
Yes, Buckey Fuller was something!!
I saw him at a 2 hour non stop lecture many years ago. He was mesmerizing. I need to find a copy of his "Nine Chains To The Moon". I believe it was in that book that he explained his math, the 60 degrees found in nature, and the minimum number "two" in the physical world.
Jacmac

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junglelord
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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by junglelord » Wed May 05, 2010 8:05 pm

Tensegrity creates matter, bucky and junglelord
"Energy is information: information is energy."
I figured that out in 1998.
:D
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by metatranspiration » Wed May 05, 2010 9:02 pm

Jacmac,
There are 12 copies available on Amazon. The minimum number 2 is the yin-yang, the positive-negative, the opposite sides of the coin, electricity and magnetism.

Interestingly, the 60 degrees found in nature are purely exemplified in fullerene. Using this principle, we now have graphite nanotubes stronger than steel and fullerenes stronger than diamond.

http://www.nanotech-now.com/nanotube-bu ... -sites.htm
"Bucky Ball:

"It is the roundest and most symmetrical large molecule known to man. Buckministerfullerine continues to astonish with one amazing property after another. Named after American architect R. Buckminister Fuller who designed a geodesic dome with the same fundamental symmetry, C60 is the third major form of pure carbon; graphite and diamond are the other two." Bucky Balls - Andy Gion.

AKA: C60 molecules & buckminsterfullerene. Molecules made up of 60 carbon atoms arranged in a series of interlocking hexagons and pentagons, forming a structure that looks similar to a soccer ball [Steffen Weber, PhD.]. C60 is actually a "truncated icosahedron", consisting of 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons. It was discovered in 1985 by Professor Sir Harry Kroto, and two Rice University professors, chemists Dr. Richard E. Smalley and Dr. Robert F. Curl Jr., [for which they were jointly awarded the 1996 Nobel Lauriate for chemistry] and is the only molecule composed of a single element to form a hollow spheroid [which gives the potential for filling it, and using it for novel drug-delivery systems. See Structure of a New Family of Buckyballs Created].

"The buckyball, being the roundest of round molecules, is also quite resistant to high speed collisions. In fact, the buckyball can withstand slamming into a stainless steel plate at 15,000 mph, merely bouncing back, unharmed. When compressed to 70 percent of its original size, the buckyball becomes more than twice as hard as its cousin, diamond." The Buckyball - Rodrigo de Almeida Siqueira. "

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by GaryN » Wed May 05, 2010 9:37 pm

Hi jacmac,
The whole of Synergetics is online, missing some images I think, but there is plenty here to keep you going for, oh, a couple of years anyway!

http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/toc/toc.html

Not sure if it is my browser, but I have to disable JavaScript for the site to display correctly.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by allynh » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:25 pm

The page where all of the links to the sections are, in pdf form, is here:

Synergetics Print Selection
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergeti ... print.html

Dotini
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Re: From plasma towards inorganic living matter

Unread post by Dotini » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:35 am

http://en.scientificcommons.org/v_n_tsytovich

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 150630.htm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Plasma-Life-F ... &id=783224

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... _life.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Cloud

http://www.dapla.org/plasma_aliens.htm

http://reporter.blackraiser.com/?p=909

Here are links relevant to the Russian plasma scientist Vadim Nikolaevich Tsytovich and to the question of plasma lifeforms. Also considered in the final link are questions of god and consciousness.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

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