The Aether Theory of Relativity

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Solar
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by Solar » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:14 am

marengo wrote: The Hafele-Keating experiment measures very small changes which can be easily argued over.
On the other hand the LHC proton mass is 15000 times its rest mass. How do you deny relativity effects in the face of such a huge difference. Who is sticking who's head in the sand?
One must not confuse the mess of Einstein's theory of relativity with the fact of its occurrence in nature.
Although there are aspects to you theory that are interesting this is not something to be "argued over". Data was purposefully falsified in order to be consistent with theory. The actual data were acquired and demonstrated to "prove nothing". That means no "time dilation". Yet, you are citing Hafele-Keating in your pages:
Altough physicists maintain that SR successfully predicts the observation of bodies with low acceleration their assertion is not always true.
For example in the Hafele-Keating experiment two identical clocks separated and then took two different journeys. They eventually re-united and were found to differ in their readings. One clock read the other to be slow and, naturally the second clock read the first to be FAST. Thus the second clock observes time contraction.
SR cannot predict time contraction. – The Aether Theory of Relativity
"Most people (myself included) would be reluctant to agree that the time
gained by any one of these clocks is indicative of anything .... the
difference between theory and experiment is disturbing."
- Hafele, Secret United States Naval Observatory internal report, 1971.
Obtained by A G Kelly two decades later under the Freedom of Information
Act. - The Deception Deepens. Falsification of experimental results relating to the Theory of Relativity.
Why?
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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viscount aero
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by viscount aero » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:44 am

I found this forum entirely devoted to anti-relativity:
http://www.anti-relativity.com/forum/index.php

There are too many threads to cite but here are but a few:

Evidence IV: The Hafele-Keating Hoax
http://www.anti-relativity.com/forum/vi ... f=3&t=6198

If relativity is wrong, then why does gps work?
http://www.anti-relativity.com/forum/vi ... f=3&t=6757

Different ideas about synchronising clocks
http://www.anti-relativity.com/forum/vi ... f=3&t=6212

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Solar
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by Solar » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:10 pm

Firstly, let me say this: The AToR has a dynamical feature of the Aether that I very much like. In my humble mind, and owing to extrapolation of said feature, the AToR should have falsified the concept of “time dilation”; not predicted it.

The AToR assessment of the clock situation (I have honestly never understood the relativist fascination with clocks) does the same thing the Halefe-Keating experiment does. It excludes circumstances that affect the mechanics of the clocks themselves:

Relativity - Einstein v. the Aether (round 2)

We have to devices (clocks) for which the mechanical parts are made up of atoms, electrons, protons etc which are assumed to be “identical” when they can’t be identical; only similar. Period. The clocks are depicted as floating around in space performing their mechanical function of ‘ticking’. Neither word nor consideration is given to the ambient gradients integral to AToR of the spatial region within which the devices have been placed. Neither word nor thought have been given to the influence of said gradients on the ‘fundamental particles’ (the FMP’s of AToR) i.e. the atoms, electrons, protons etc. From this vantage point take a look at what AToR says regarding fundamental particles and gradients:

Matter in Aether Physics
Abstract
It is proposed that fundamental matter particles (FMPs) are constructed of electric potentials rotating around each other at the local speed of light in an unknown screw-like geometry. There are two major forms, positive and negative. The Aether velocity of an FMP is determined by the degree of screw geometry. The internal electric potentials of an FMP are modified by the super-position of the ambient electric potential. An ambient gradient modifies the degree of screw geometry at a rate proportional to the gradient, thus causing acceleration

The Aether hypothesis of the construction of Matter.

It is hypothesized that a fundamental mass particle (FMP) is constructed of highly elevated electric potentials which rotate round in some unknown form of compact three dimensional geometry of minute dimensions. These electric potentials, moving at the local speed of light, may be in the form of waves.
One effect is to create a constant elevated electric potential at a set distance around the FMP, which may be either positive or negative. This effect we call charge.

The geometry of the rotating wave group is hypothesized to be assymetric (in some manner) in a particular direction such that the assymetry acts to screw the FMP through the Aether in the direction of the assymetry at a fraction of the speed of light as determined by the degree of screw assymetry.
Thus the Aether velocity of an FMP (and therefore also of bulk matter) is precisely determined by its particular geometry.

The effect of a potential gradient on an FMP

It is the case that the ambient electric potential super-positions upon the internal electric potentials of the FMP. It is proposed that the ambient electric gradient unbalances the internal potentials and hence changes the degree of screw assymetry of the FMP in the direction of the gradient.

The change to the screw geometry is cumulative over time.

As a change in screw geometry relates directly to a change in Aether velocity the FMP is caused to accelerate at a rate and direction determined by the degree and direction of the ambient gradient. – Matter In Aether Physics
Whatever one's take is on Marengo’s AToR keep hold of the above aspects of what might be refered to as Aether-Dynamics. This is quite nice overall and generally commensurate with other Aether Theories that I like. It may also be generally summed as “particles” being “Solitons” which is to then be correlated with the wonderful work of Gabriel LaFreniere’s (October 4th 1942 - April 11 2012 ) stunning wave structure of matter:

Matter is Made of Waves

In AToR the “screw-like” geometry constituting the fundamental particle’s existence presents an oscillating asymmetric mode for which the internal potentials (aka “internal pressure”) are “unbalanced” (or “modified”) by theses gradients. However, none of this is applied in relation to the atoms, protons, electrons et al of the clocks which cannot be “identical" (only similar) and must occupy two different positions along these gradients. The clocks will thereby experience different modifications of the "internal potentials" of the "particles" composing the clocks existence while constantly interacting with the potentials, within said gradient(s).

Owing to the still active super-position of these rotating fields of potential upon said FMP’s along with their placement along gradients there is absolutely no way that two entirely different clocks, regardless of their similarity and regardless of the distance between them, should ever be assumed (or expected) to keep the exact same time. This, whether accelerated; or not - but particularly more so when one is accelerated in relation to the other. To exclude these factors is to simply engage in an idealized “thought experiment”; the terminology of which is an oxymoron in the first place. The results would be that the actual mechanics of the clocks are affected by gradients and will tick differently.

To then interpret the differences in the times shown on the clocks as indicating that "Time" somehow "dilated" is ... fantasy.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by Aardwolf » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:17 pm

marengo wrote:DOES ANYONE ELSE ACCEPT RELATIVISTIC MASS INCREASE?
Apparently CERN have their doubts. Here's an abstract and link to a paper on the CERN Document Server titled "On the Abuse and Use of Relativistic Mass";

http://cds.cern.ch/record/852281?ln=en
The concept of velocity dependent mass, relativistic mass, is examined and is found to be inconsistent with the geometrical formulation of special relativity. This is not a novel result; however, many continue to use this concept and some have even attempted to establish it as the basis for special relativity. It is argued that the oft-held view that formulations of relativity with and without relativistic mass are equivalent is incorrect. Left as a heuristic device a preliminary study of first time learners suggest that misconceptions can develop when the concept is introduced without basis. In order to gauge the extent and nature of the use of relativistic mass a survey of the literature on relativity has been undertaken. The varied and at times self-contradicting use of this concept points to the lack of clear consensus on the formulation of relativity. As geometry lies at the heart of all modern representations of relativity, it is urged, once again, that the use of the concept at all levels be abandoned.
The "effect" is incompatible with relativity although I suspect that's just one more fact for you to ignore.

Cavemann
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by Cavemann » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:25 pm

marengo wrote:I thought that I had conclusively shown via the LHC that relativity effects do occur. I would like to hear from other posters whether they agree or disagree that the protons in the LHC have a mass some 15000 times their rest mass.
Silly me, I thought I would save space and just provide a link in my previous post to allow people to check it out but... under the subheading "Controversy", this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_sp ... istic_mass states; Okun and followers reject the concept of relativistic mass. Also Arnold B. Arons has argued against teaching the concept of relativistic mass:

For many years it was conventional to enter the discussion of dynamics through derivation of the relativistic mass, that is the mass–velocity relation, and this is probably still the dominant mode in textbooks. More recently, however, it has been increasingly recognized that relativistic mass is a troublesome and dubious concept. [See, for example, Okun (1989) *original link no good, try http://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/~des/Phy ... 20mass.pdf page 6. The sound and rigorous approach to relativistic dynamics is through direct development of that expression for momentum that ensures conservation of momentum in all frames:

p = {m_0 v \over {\sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}}} \! *Should check the first link to see how that is really written.

rather than through relativistic mass....

Many contemporary authors such as Taylor and Wheeler avoid using the concept of relativistic mass altogether:

"The concept of "relativistic mass" is subject to misunderstanding. That's why we don't use it. First, it applies the name mass - belonging to the magnitude of a 4-vector - to a very different concept, the time component of a 4-vector. Second, it makes increase of energy of an object with velocity or momentum appear to be connected with some change in internal structure of the object. In reality, the increase of energy with velocity originates not in the object but in the geometric properties of spacetime itself."

While space-time has the unbounded geometry of Minkowski-space, the velocity-space is bounded by c and has the geometry of hyperbolic geometry where relativistic-mass plays an analogous role to that of Newtonian-mass in the barycentric-coordinates of Euclidean geometry. The connection of velocity to hyperbolic-geometry enables the 3-velocity-dependent relativistic-mass to be related to the 4-velocity Minkowski-formalism.

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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by viscount aero » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:20 pm

lorentz transformation explained, animation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2VMO7pcWhg

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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by Michael V » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:29 am

marengo,

I have been unable to complete your maths challenge. Perhaps you would be so kind as to show some intermediate steps between 11.1 and 11.2. As many steps as possible and as much detail as possible, with particular attention to how gamma appears. I'm sure it would be informative for more than just myself and may help your cause.


Michael

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:32 am

Solar wrote:Might you explain how the above is not contradicting itself? It says on the one hand that "these effects can never be observed (for various reasons)." Then it says "...they eventually come together to correctly predict the observed effects of relativity." - which are supposedly "length contraction, time dilation and mass increase".
Yes that does not seem possible, does it?
The reason why the effects of Aether velocity, such as length contraction, time dilation mass increase etc, cannot be observed is simply because we do not possess an unaffected standard against which we may compare the effect. For instance, an iron rod parallel to Aether velocity will be contracted. Now how do we measure that contraction? If we employ a meter ruler to measure the rod the meter ruler will be contracted just as much as the iron rod. Thus no difference can ever be noted.
One has the same problem with time dilation and mass increase.

So how do we manage to observe relativity effects, which according to me, stem from the Aether velocity effects?
For that explanation I suggest you read Appendix 4 in the pdf of my booklet. I will respond to any questions you may have.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:46 am

Solar wrote:
marengo wrote: Altough physicists maintain that SR successfully predicts the observation of bodies with low acceleration their assertion is not always true.
For example in the Hafele-Keating experiment two identical clocks separated and then took two different journeys. They eventually re-united and were found to differ in their readings. One clock read the other to be slow and, naturally the second clock read the first to be FAST. Thus the second clock observes time contraction.
SR cannot predict time contraction. – The Aether Theory of Relativity
Whether you agree with the calculations and conclusions of Hafele and Keating or not time dilation does happen.
I say this because if you accept that the 15000:1 mass increase effect occurs in the LHC then that is proof of relativity.
The Aether Theory of Relativity correctly predicts that mass increase but also predicts time dilation and length contraction. Thus if one effect is proven then all three are proven.

The Aether Theory of Relativity also predicts time CONTRACTION. This occurs when the observer is accelerating.
When two synchronized clocks separate , take different journeys and then re-unite their times no longer agree.
Thus one clock reads the other to be slow and that clock reads the first to be FAST. Thus a theory which predicts time dilation must also predict time contraction. Einsteins theory cant do that.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:49 am

viscount aero wrote:I found this forum entirely devoted to anti-relativity:
http://www.anti-relativity.com/forum/index.php
I know the forum well. Unfortunately it is run by devoted Einstein disciples.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:01 am

Solar wrote:We have to devices (clocks) for which the mechanical parts are made up of atoms, electrons, protons etc which are assumed to be “identical” when they can’t be identical; only similar. Period. The clocks are depicted as floating around in space performing their mechanical function of ‘ticking’. Neither word nor consideration is given to the ambient gradients integral to AToR of the spatial region within which the devices have been placed. Neither word nor thought have been given to the influence of said gradients on the ‘fundamental particles’ (the FMP’s of AToR) i.e. the atoms, electrons, protons etc. From this vantage point take a look at what AToR says regarding fundamental particles and gradients:
Your post is a long one so I will only reply to this part.
The reasons why clocks time dilate is due to the change in the electric fields within the atoms of which they are composed. It would be a great help to you if you read my booklet all the way through.
What happens is this. The Aether velocity of a charge affects its electric field. The field contracts in the direction of movement but also additionally contracts in all directions equally. The electric field of an atomic nucleus is affected in this way. That in turn affects the electron orbits. One affect is that the orbits take longer ie they are time dilated. All time dependent processes are affected in the same way as a matter of logical deduction.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:07 am

Aardwolf wrote:The concept of velocity dependent mass, relativistic mass, is examined and is found to be inconsistent with the geometrical formulation of special relativity. This is not a novel result; however, many continue to use this concept and some have even attempted to establish it as the basis for special relativity. It is argued that the oft-held view that formulations of relativity with and without relativistic mass are equivalent is incorrect. Left as a heuristic device a preliminary study of first time learners suggest that misconceptions can develop when the concept is introduced without basis. In order to gauge the extent and nature of the use of relativistic mass a survey of the literature on relativity has been undertaken. The varied and at times self-contradicting use of this concept points to the lack of clear consensus on the formulation of relativity. As geometry lies at the heart of all modern representations of relativity, it is urged, once again, that the use of the concept at all levels be abandoned.
Please read the first sentence of your quote. I have constantly maintained that the theory of Special Relativity is rubbish. I have also constantly said not to confuse the mess of Special Relativity with the fact of the physical effects
Last edited by marengo on Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:18 am

Cavemann wrote:Silly me, I thought I would save space and just provide a link in my previous post to allow people to check it out but... under the subheading "Controversy", this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_sp ... istic_mass states; Okun and followers reject the concept of relativistic mass. Also Arnold B. Arons has argued against teaching the concept of relativistic mass:
Via the eqn. E =mc^2/2 we can calculate the mass of the LHC protons to be 15000 times their rest mass.
If you dont want to call that difference relativistic then what will you call it. The fact is that the difference exists.
Energy is relativistic. If the observer moves towards an incoming photon the frequency of that photon appears to him to be increased as a function of his velocity relative to the source of the photon. Thus the photon energy is higher due to his relative velocity.
As energy is relativistic then so must be mass.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:29 am

Michael V wrote:marengo,

I have been unable to complete your maths challenge. Perhaps you would be so kind as to show some intermediate steps between 11.1 and 11.2. As many steps as possible and as much detail as possible, with particular attention to how gamma appears. I'm sure it would be informative for more than just myself and may help your cause.
Michael I have to reply to many posts so must be brief.
Use the standard quadratic formula [-b +/-sqrt(b^2 -4ac)]/2a for ax^2 + bx + c =0
The only difficult bit is arranging the factors within the sqrt bracket. I have checked it out many times.
After squaring (r_0v/c + x} you get r_o^2v^2/c^2 etc. On the LH side of the eqn is r_0^2. Thus the total r_0^2 is (1 - v^2/c^2). That factor is 1/gamma^2. Is it not? So it is one example of gamma coming in.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

marengo
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Re: The Aether Theory of Relativity

Unread post by marengo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:41 am

First of all many thanks for the interest of posters.
My object on this forum is to restore the Aether to physics.
There have been may objections to the Aether. Perhaps the most commonly cited is the Michelson-Morley experiment.
This experiment was pointless!

For which theory does one employ to predict the result. If the Aether exists you must use Aether physics. If the Aether does not exist you must use non-Aether physics. Thus, in an experiment designed to determine whether the Aether exists or not you first have to make up your mind what the result will be. UTTER NONSENSE.
http://www.aetherpages.com
A series of scientific papers on the new Aether physics.

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