EU Breakthrough? - Gravity is Electro-Magnetic

[Lloyd]

* The NPA videoconference last Saturday featured Kopernicky, who proves that the attractive force between two magnets is greater than their repulsive force, which disproves Coulomb's Law. And it suggests that the attractive force of gravity is this difference between attractive and repulsive forces in magnetic fields. Since magnetic fields are created by electric fields, gravity must be an electrical effect.
* The conference notice was given here: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 135#p59073 and comments about it follow that post. Further discussion is welcome here.
* The 2 hour conference can be seen here: http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?t ... s&tab1=All. Scroll down to Past Events - Nov 12. Once you're there you can skip around to any part of it, if you like.
* Here's an image from the video, which shows the difference between the two in an experimental setup.

[flippinrocks]

coulombs law dies at age 226
gravity defined

EU model wrecking crew coming though, clear a path.

[katesisco]

I wonder if any of the 'unique' results are symptomatic of a solar heliosphere compression; from Pluto reduced down to Venus? Do we have any way to test this theory? It stands to reason an experiment done on a planet with a thick atmosphere will have a totally different result from one that is done on the same planet but with a much thinned atmos.
It baffles me that S W Carey's work is not attended to in spite of what it implies. In spite of the solar body changes we now see, no one see interested in positing this heliospheric compression even though NASA years ago said that the effects on additional charge to the gas cloud Fluff would be unknown. Isn't now to time to find out instead of attributing these 'unique' experiment results to more and more discerning scientific discoveries?
The only way these 'unique' outcomes would be of value is if they are compared to the same experiment done after the compressive release 2013.

[tayga]

Lloyd, thanks, this is one of my favourite subjects.

Do you happen to know whether it's possible to save fuze videos?

[electrodogg1]

Does this experiment actually disprove Coulomb's Law? I have not yet listened to the entire podcast. I am not a physicist or electrical engineer, but my reading of Coulomb's law says that it applies to point charges. That would mean to me that the charges are massless. If they are massless, there should be no gravitational effect and repulsive force would equal attractive force.

Please set me straight if I am in error.

[Lloyd]

Get Ready for Another One
* In case anyone hasn't noticed, there's another videoconference this coming Sunday on the same subject, but with a different way of arriving at the conclusion that electric fields produce gravity.
* For where to see it, see this link: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 481#p59481.
* Here's a description of what the talk will discuss:

In this presentation I [i.e. Bob French] discuss a work in progress proposing a model of gravitation as a residual effect of the electric field without appealing to dipoles. I first sketch a thin-shell model of the electric field whereby each charged particle possesses i[t]s own three-dimensional field consisting of a series of concentric thin shells; and where there is a superposition of these shells in a four-dimensional overall space. I show that the widths of these shells decreases at an inverse square rate with respect to the distance from the charged particle. I also show that there is an asymmetry in the widths of these shells which makes the attractive force differ from the repulsive force by a factor which decreases with distance. I postulate that this difference can be identified with the force of gravity.

Kate
* Can you explain how heliospheric compression relates to this topic? Where is there info on the compressive release of 2013 that you mentioned? What's that about?
Tayga
* I don't know if the videos can be saved, but there may be ways to copy them. You could certainly get an audio recording and get stills from the video.
Electrodogg1
* I think Kopernicky believes Coulomb's Law is disproved. I think he said in the video that Coulomb's measurements of the attractive and repulsive magnetic fields were not accurate enough to detect the difference between the two forces. And I think he said Coulomb's Law claims that they are identical, which is apparently disproved. Kopernicky said, if he's right, then "Coulomb's Law for repulsion has to be modified".
* Here's what the preview of Kopernicky's videoconference said:

The writer brings to light the supposedly well-known fact that vectors of attractive forces of magnets and electrostatic charges are linear and repulsive forces are tangential. The writer asserted that as the consequence of this fact, the attraction between opposite polarities (of magnets and electrostatic charges) and repulsion between same polarities is not equal due to the different geometry of the field, and therefore different density of the field between two (or more) charges (magnets). The writer assumed that this asymmetry actually can account for gravitation. That would bring possibility that gravitation can belong to the family of electromagnetic forces. The writer also elaborates on the idea of possibility of electromagnetic origin of inertia, brought in by late Prof. William (Bill) Hughes from the University of South Dakota. The consequence would be an inherence and independence of inertia, in accordance with Newton’s views.

* I don't understand this very well, such as attractive forces of charges being linear and repulsive forces being tangential. I didn't hear the discussion on inertia and that aspect is very fuzzy for me too. But apparently inertia is also electrical somehow.

[sjw40364]

Does this experiment actually disprove Coulomb's Law? I have not yet listened to the entire podcast. I am not a physicist or electrical engineer, but my reading of Coulomb's law says that it applies to point charges. That would mean to me that the charges are massless. If they are massless, there should be no gravitational effect and repulsive force would equal attractive force.

Please set me straight if I am in error.

Do you really believe that a charge can exist at only a single point in space? Points are mathematical entities and do not exist in the real world. I have searched Ace Hardware many times to buy a bag of points, still no luck. Point charges belong in the same category as virtual particles and Black Holes, FAIRIE DUST: Fictional Ad hoc Inventions Repeatedly Invoked in Efforts to Defend Untenable Scientific Theories.

[tayga]

Do you really believe that a charge can exist at only a single point in space?

This is a basic error in Physics, isn't it? I'm of the opinion that this incorrect assumption, along with the unnecessary invention of the strong nuclear force, underlies the speculative nonsense called the quark model.

Charge distribution is also the most feasible mechanism for gravity and goes back to the work of TT Brown and the Biefeld-Brown Effect.

[electrodogg1]

Dear swj,

I think you're missing the point (pun intended). Just because there is no practical way that Coulomb's law can apply in the real world, this does not invalidate the theoretical abstraction of the statement of the law. It's still useful, one just has to eliminate the gravitational attraction from the net repulsive force in order to get the theoretical repulsive force calculated using Coulomb's Law.

[GaryN]

@ sjw40364

Points are mathematical entities and do not exist in the real world.

Maybe Bucky can clarify the point. Or not.

...the phenomena accommodated by the packaged word "point" will always prove to be a focal center of differentiating events.
519.20 If light or any other experiential phenomenon were instantaneous, it would be less than a point.

http://synergeticists.org/synergetics/s05/p1900.html

[saul]

Does this experiment actually disprove Coulomb's Law? I have not yet listened to the entire podcast. I am not a physicist or electrical engineer, but my reading of Coulomb's law says that it applies to point charges. That would mean to me that the charges are massless. If they are massless, there should be no gravitational effect and repulsive force would equal attractive force.

Please set me straight if I am in error.

If you know the field effect of a point charge then you can make any collection of points you like to make a real body and perform an integration over them to get the field. Thus the field of the point charge is the "essential physics" for this kind of macroscopic static electric field.

For an interesting example make the integration over a spherical shell of some thickness and constant charge density. You will find that the field everywhere outside the shell is equivalent to what the field would be if all the charge were at a point in the center of the sphere.

[flippinrocks]

gravity is ruining the experiment, thats why there is a measureable difference.

I hear Coulomb giggling.

[Sparky]

the attractive force between two magnets is greater than their repulsive force, which disproves Coulomb's Law.

no, there may be another force at work....see next statement...

And it suggests that the attractive force of gravity is this difference between attractive and repulsive forces in magnetic fields.

yes, probably, if i understand the experiment's layout.

Since magnetic fields are created by electric fields, gravity must be an electrical effect.

this conclusion does not seem to follow. gravity could be something other and still affect this experiment. am i in error?

[Lloyd]

* Sparky, if gravity is a result of the attractive force of magnetic fields being stronger than the repulsive force, and if magnetic fields are created by electric fields, then magnetism and gravity both are created by electric fields. But I haven't heard yet what Bob French said this past Saturday on the NPA video conference. Here's the link to French's speech: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... 73/2214481. I see he says gravity could also be similar to Kopernicky's finding, but instead of being the difference between the attractive and repulsive forces of magnetic fields, it can be the difference between those of the electric field.

[Sparky]

* Sparky, if gravity is a result of the attractive force of magnetic fields

This IF seems to have evolved from speculation to an assumption.

-being stronger than the repulsive force, and if magnetic fields are created by electric fields, then magnetism and gravity both are created by electric fields.

IF those speculative assumptions are correct, then the conclusion is also.


But I haven't heard yet what Bob French said this past Saturday on the NPA video conference. Here's the link to French's speech: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... 73/2214481. I see he says gravity could also be similar to Kopernicky's finding, but instead of being the difference between the attractive and repulsive forces of magnetic fields, it can be the difference between those of the electric field.[/quote]

Thanks for the link...will try to read it today...what ever gravity is, repulsive EM bombardment must be part of the equation.